Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2024

[Jonathan Adams]

I'm sorry. There was an audio error.

Could you repeat the question, please?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

For this type of benefits, are you forecasting a surplus for 2023?

[Jonathan Adams]

I'm very sorry. It didn't come through.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Harris, could you...?

[Steven Harris]

We can follow up on that. That said, the very easy answer is that we always have a slight surplus every year, because we ask for more money than we need. This is to make sure we never find ourselves in a situation where a veteran who was eligible for a program could not receive the funds they needed.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Are the surpluses for budget items like those transferred to the same budget items the next year?

[Steven Harris]

No, they are returned to the tax centre. However, the funds remain available and we can ask for them the next year.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Right.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Now let's go to Ms. Rachel Blaney for six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I am happy to have you folks here to answer our very good questions.

Often, forms of discrimination are not documented. We heard from witnesses we've had for the women's report, and again for the indigenous and Black study, that when things are not documented, it's very hard when people who serve get to VAC in terms of getting the correlation in place to have their suffering recognized and cared for. Right now, we know there is the CAF racism class action. There are a lot of people looking to be compensated for very horrendous racist activities that happened in the CAF.

As part of your process at VAC, is there any work being done to figure out how to accommodate that reality, which was not documented properly by the CAF? When the CAF hasn't documented these complex issues, but when they've obviously been documented by the legal system, how do you deal with this so that services for veterans can be appropriate?

[Steven Harris]

Mr. Chair, I'd add, in response to that question, something quite specific that we've done. We've updated the eligibility entitlement guidelines around a number of existing suites of psychiatric benefits, for example. These include guidance for decision-makers when they're reviewing this, in order to understand that repeated unjust conduct or being subjected to prejudicial treatment can not only cause but also exacerbate mental health issues. That is guidance we've added directly into the decision-making guides our frontline staff use to render decisions on service relationships and things of that nature.

On the example you provided, if somebody was subjected to unjust behaviour, it would not necessarily be something documented in a service file. However, it's understood, based on a number of class actions, reports and studies that were completed. This guidance is now included in the documents our staff use to help render decisions as well.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that answer.

I want to put in the connection between that response and the changes that are potentially happening with the VIP program in order to encourage this, which is that there should be a different process to address those issues.

My next question is on the gold digger clause. We know that in 2019, $150 million was put aside. I've asked questions about it since then. Figuring out who to give the money to is the challenge.

Have you guys gotten any further along? Are there any people, largely women, who have been identified as gold diggers by an old policy that is from something like 1901? Is any of that money actually flowing to the survivors of veterans who married at 60 or older?

[Mitch Freeman]

Mr. Chair, work continues on this very important file. As the minister noted in one of her appearances, it's very much a priority for the department to determine and understand this group of survivors, and what best would support them into the future as they go through this very difficult situation. Unfortunately, it is not yet complete.

Therefore, there's nothing detailed at this particular moment. However, that work remains a priority and is under way within the department.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Well, it's been five years. I've talked to a lot of women, and if you need a list, I'm happy to provide it. Some of those folks are women who, in some cases, are dealing with pretty economically challenging times. This would make such a big difference, especially after you've spent, as in one example, 25 years caring for a veteran who needed a ton of care, and you are now living in poverty as a result of that marriage.

The last time I had a chat with Mr. Ledwell in this committee, I was talking about the need that I see for trauma training. I've heard through the grapevine—please correct me if I'm wrong—that a lot of folks who are starting to work for VAC are coming from the corrections background. They are coming from one department to another department, which makes a lot of sense. They have some understanding of the skill, but I wonder if they have the trauma training they really need. I think that if you're used to dealing with people from the criminal element, you might be a little bit more abrupt, and we don't want to have that happen for any Canadian, quite frankly, but especially for veterans.

Mr. Ledwell said that there is work happening around the “tell us once” policy so that veterans didn't have to repeat, but unfortunately, I'm still hearing that veterans are having to repeat their story. I'm just wondering if you have any update on this and whether there's actually any comprehensive trauma training happening. If so, how has it changed from the previous online component?

[Steven Harris]

Mr. Chair, we have been working through, as was noted by the member's question.... There are a number of trauma-informed training elements that are already in place for Veterans Affairs staff members, and something called specifically “trauma-informed” training. Then there are lots of other elements and segments of training that involve elements of trauma-informed training as well.

That has been in place for some time, but we do recognize the need to update it and make sure that it's staying consistent with new approaches and best practices for all of our frontline staff. We're looking at the best way to do that right now, so that we can roll out that training not only to existing staff but of course to any new staff we're bringing on board who are either from other departments or are new to our department.

With respect to the “tell us once” principle, we absolutely want to have that as the rule that's in place for veterans. We may ask them how they're feeling about something rather than to tell us about the trauma they've actually suffered. What kinds of things can we do to help them feel better rather than having them retell their story? What is the barrier they're facing? Rather than the actual incident itself, what barrier might they be facing? How can we address that with ourselves and mental health professionals and others who are part of the overall suite of practitioners who help to support veterans as well?

We want to do that from a paper point of view, from a submission point of view and from a phone call point of view, all the way through.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

There are two more interventions. The first one is from Mr. Fraser Tolmie.

You can split your five minutes, please, Mr. Tolmie.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the department for coming. For those who are online and joining us, thank you very much.

We've spent a lot of time listening to some very heartbreaking stories. I'm sure you watch the videos. I'm sure you've seen or witnessed what we've seen and what we've heard.

This past summer in the city of Moose Jaw, the food bank was threatened with closing down because there was a lack of donations and because the cost of food is increasing. People have less to give. The financial donations weren't going as far, because the cost of food has gone up. What we're also seeing, not only in the city of Moose Jaw but across Canada, is the increased use of food banks. We know that to be so for a lot of veterans, and in fact for a lot of serving members in the military.

My question that comes to you is this: How do you track the number of veterans using the food banks? Do you have something in place to track the number of veterans who are using food banks or have to rely on food banks?

[Steven Harris]

Mr. Chair, we can't track individual veterans' usage of food banks across the country. What we do have in place is a series of programs and services that are meant to ensure financial security for veterans as well.

That may be compensation they receive for illness or injury. More importantly, it may be compensation in income replacement benefits, so that if a veteran is unable to work or is undergoing a rehabilitation program, they're going to be supported at 90% of their pre-release salary.

We also have a veterans emergency fund that's been in place for about seven years now, and that fund has helped over 8,000 unique clients.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Harris, for pointing that out.

How do veterans identify in accessing that fund? We know you can't track how many people are using food banks, but is that not a way to track how much need is out there?

[Steven Harris]

I think the answer to the question is one that Mr. Freeman talked about a bit earlier.

It's a combination of programs. It's prevention by making sure eligible veterans come forward and are being supported through significant VAC programs. That's the reason we're here to ask for an increase in the supplementary estimates. It's so more money can go to veterans who've come forward and are eligible for those things.

Second, it's about what we can do from a homelessness point of view. Mr. Freeman spoke earlier about the initiative, as the minister did, to put more places in spots for veterans to prevent homelessness, and to ensure that if they end up on the streets for one reason or another, there's a place for them to come back in and re-establish themselves.

Then there are things like the veterans emergency fund, through which we can track for shelter, food, heating and those kinds of things. We have seen various increases, over a number of years, in people using it, and we continue to support the program.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Harris, for your answer.

It's absolutely heartbreaking that veterans have to use these programs. It's showing the cost of living crisis we're going through right now. It's a cyclical event, and unchecked spending is creating the problem. You're in the middle of it.

I want to share my time with Mrs. Wagantall. She has a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have one minute.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Is it one minute?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Yes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Chair.