Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 12th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 122 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, January 29, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of the experience of indigenous veterans and Black veterans.

Today's meeting is being held in hybrid form.

I would like to welcome the committee members who are participating in the meeting today by videoconference. They include Mr. Richards and Tim Louis, who is replacing Mr. Miao.

We also have other colleagues online. We have Mel Arnold, who is replacing Mr. Tolmie.

Also with us is Martin Champoux, who is replacing Mr. Desilets.

I would remind all participants that all comments should be directed to the chair.

As usual, on behalf of the members of the committee, I would like to welcome all veterans who are watching or listening to this meeting.

For this hour, we welcome back the Atlas Institute for Veterans and Families. We have with us MaryAnn Notarianni, deputy chief executive officer and executive vice-president of knowledge mobilization, and Meriem Benlamri, director of knowledge mobilization. She is appearing by video conference.

From Indspire, we have Yvan Guy Larocque, who is on the board of directors and is clinical counsel at the University of Manitoba's faculty of law, joining us by video conference. We have Mr. William Shead, who is also on the board of directors and is also joining by video conference.

From the Last Post Fund, we have Maria Antonia Trujillo, project coordinator of the indigenous veterans initiative, by video conference.

I think you know the rules because you have been here before.

I heard we're not doing any opening remarks. That's great. All of the witnesses have already made opening remarks, so we will start right away with questions and answers.

I'm going to start with Mrs. Cathay Wagantall for six minutes, please.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I am very pleased that we were able to have you folks come back so we could do this properly and ask you some questions.

MaryAnn, for those of us who may not know, can you give an explanation of knowledge mobilization or define what it means?

[MaryAnn Notarianni, Deputy Chief Executive Officer and Executive Vice-President, Knowledge Mobilization, Atlas Institute for Veterans and Families]

I would be happy to. Thank you for the question.

Knowledge mobilization, at its core, is all about taking evidence and getting it in front of and into the hands of those who can use it. It's really about getting knowledge and information, and packaging it in such a way that it will reach the intended audience.

At its core, knowledge mobilization is also about mobilizing or moving that evidence into action so that it can have a positive impact. That's how we approach it at Atlas. The simplest definition is taking information and getting it into the hands of those who can use it.

I'd be happy to elaborate on our approach and the way we do that at Atlas since it can take different forms, if time permits.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

What are your funding sources?

[MaryAnn Notarianni]

We are funded through Veterans Affairs Canada. Our primary funding comes through a contribution agreement with Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Are they the major source of what would be studied, as far as requesting studies and research to be done goes?

[MaryAnn Notarianni]

We exist as an arm's-length organization. We were set up intentionally as such through the contribution agreement. That means they give us our funding and outline the pillars or main functions of how we work, research being one of them.

At the same time, there is a distance in that they aren't directing exactly what we study, which allows us to look at the gaps in the research and, importantly, to consult with and engage veterans and their families on what matters to them. We can also scan the landscape, see what's being done and look for opportunities where there is a need for more research. That's part of how we determine what we'll research.

We're funded to do research, but VAC doesn't get to tell us what to research.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Can you give me one really significant example, from your perspective, of where you found a gap and made the decision to do research on it?

[MaryAnn Notarianni]

Yes, I'm happy to.

This complements what you as a committee have done around women veterans after seeing big gaps there. That's something we identified early on. We have taken an approach to be very participatory in how we set out a program of study on the mental health and well-being of women veterans. We've done that through our Athena project.

We presented to this committee in the spring for your previous study on that in the early days. We now have two studies under way.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's wonderful. Thank you.

You're doing the research. How do you determine which veterans to reach out to? How do you reach out to ensure you get a significant cohort to get the results you would need in order to say you have exact and accurate outcomes?

[MaryAnn Notarianni]

That's a great question. There are a couple of ways I'd like to address that.

One, when we're designing research studies, we recruit based on the study we're doing. That's going to have certain inclusion criteria depending on the topic of study. We do clinical research. We also do applied research, which could be qualitative and more about interviews, for example.

For the people on whom we are conducting research or who would be implicated in that research—the “subjects” of the research, for lack of a better word—we would have the criteria we need. We use all sorts of strategies to get the word out to reach veterans and families that fit the profile so we can get the samples we need to have a study that gives us robust enough evidence to speak to.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I have a question on that.

As you're probably aware, there are all kinds of veterans groups online that are in the thousands. Do you ever reach out to them to say, “Here is what we're studying. If you think you can contribute, reach out to us.” Then, of course, you do what you need to do to ensure they fit into that scenario. Have you done that?

[MaryAnn Notarianni]

Yes, of course. We use a variety of channels. We leverage social media to get the word out through organic posts or even paid social media, just to try to reach people on different platforms. We will work with groups that are willing to post for us. We will work with individual champions who have large networks. I met someone, a veteran, who was very proud of the network she had. She said she would share things.

Absolutely, we use all sorts of ways to reach as diverse a group and as wide a group as possible.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Do you reach out to the veterans advisory groups the government has?

[MaryAnn Notarianni]

Some of our lived experience staff have memberships on a couple of those advisory groups. We're connected with people in various ways on those advisory groups.

VAC is certainly a champion in spreading the word for us through VAC's “Salute!” and through other community engagement outreach in particular.

In many ways, through our personal networks or our official networks, we get the word out.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Do I have time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 20 seconds.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I had hoped to get to the Last Post Fund. I'm quite concerned about the challenges they're facing, but unfortunately, I'll have to leave that for someone else to pursue.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to MP Randeep Sarai for six minutes, please.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the guests for coming back.

I'll go to those online, because they always get neglected. The people in the room sometimes get more questions.

I'll put my first question to Indspire. Could you share more details about the indigenous post-secondary scholarship trust, including how it was established, its intent and the impact the program is having?

[William Shead, Board of Directors, Indspire]

I can probably answer that, because I was there when it was established.

In 1995, the Senate Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs had a study on aboriginal veterans, which was co-chaired by the late Senator Len Marchand. One of their recommendations to the government was establishing a scholarship and bursary fund to commemorate the service of aboriginal veterans. This they did. They called for proposals from various organizations—an expression of interest to see who would be prepared to administer the fund. The organization that succeeded was the Canadian Native Arts Foundation, which at the time was chaired by John Kim Bell. It was a small organization raising money to support aboriginal artists.

Subsequently, when we took over the fund, we realized it could not be used strictly for arts. It had to be for a broad variety of scholarships and disciplines. When we did that, we couldn't call ourselves the Canadian Native Arts Foundation; we had to call ourselves something else. We came up with the concept of the National Aboriginal Achievement Foundation, because at the time, we were also sponsoring the achievement awards now known as the Indspire awards.

Some years ago, we changed our name again to “Indspire”—I-N-D for “indigenous” and S-P-I-R-E for “inspiration”. We found that the National Aboriginal Achievement Foundation was quite long and had to be translated into French, which was very difficult. The word “Indspire” does not need to be translated. We came up with a logo and a whole range of things to change our image.

We also reached out to industry and other organizations, and we changed our strategies for fundraising to the point where we're now able to raise a significant amount of funds not just from individual donors but also from corporations, businesses and various departments of the government. We—

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

I'm sorry to cut you off there. Because of time, I want to ask my next question while I have you here.

[William Shead]

No, that's fine.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Can you tell us how indigenous veterans can contribute to educating younger generations, especially by advocating for their own communities and ensuring their contributions to Canadian military history are taught and acknowledged by everyone?

[William Shead]

Veterans are called upon regularly to speak at significant events, such as the anniversary of significant battles like the Battle of Vimy Ridge and the Dieppe raid. They are also called upon heavily for Remembrance Day.

When we go out, we speak about the need for individuals—students and young people—to stay with their program of education. A number of us are involved with another organization that sponsors a volunteer speakers bureau, The Memory Project, so it's not just about reaching out and encouraging people to stick with education. We do that. There are gatherings of students whenever we have achievement awards, or the Indspire awards. We get about 1,500 students each time we have these events. It's like a trade show, where they learn about educational opportunities in various universities and job opportunities in various industries, whether it's in mining, general business or banking.