Veterans Affairs Committee on May 6th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Your time is up. I'm so sorry, Mr. Rogers.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thanks for that explanation. I really appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I have to say that I just made the calculation of the time, and because we have to vote on the estimates at the end of the meeting, I have to tell Mrs. Wagantall that I don't think she's going to be able to intervene.

I am so sorry, Mrs. Wagantall, but maybe you could ask Mr. Tolmie or Frank Caputo to share their time

Mr. Fraser Tolmie, it is your time for five minutes.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay, and I'll be very happy to share my time with Mrs. Wagantall.

I have a couple of comments.

I know that Mr. Desilets circled back on the question that I brought up earlier with regard to the spending. I think one of the things the minister brought up was that there was always going to be money in the pot for remuneration and, if not, then it would be returned.

The question I have with that statement is: Did we not have enough employees, and was there money returned based on that comment?

[Sara Lantz]

Just to clarify the word “returned”, I would point out that when we establish new benefits or make policy changes to a veterans program, we estimate the long-term obligation of meeting the needs of those programs. That estimate acts like a kind of a bank account from which we draw on annually. In the last fiscal year where we did lapse, or where we have unspent money in the program area, that money was effectively returned to the bank account—on which we can redraw when people do come forward for those benefits.

I believe that is what the minister was referring to when he said “returned”. That money does not, effectively, lapse. It may lapsed under the accounting terms and on our books, but it is available for veterans when they come forward.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Ms. Lantz. I appreciate that.

Another observation is that we keep talking about full-time employees and this backlog. What I kind of see in the time frame that I've been here is an accordion effect where we are reacting and then there's an inconsistency that's created. Furthermore, when we look at new hires, a previous witness told us that it would take up to a year to recruit and train.

Based on Mr. Harris's comments that we want to get this completed within two years, or the backlog down to two years, is it not fair to say that a realistic goal would actually be three years? If you have a year where you're training someone and then you have them up and running, you actually have two good years with them afterwards. Is that not a better standard to set for ourselves and be realistic, rather than over-promise and under-deliver, and vice versa.

Do you have comments on that?

[Sara Lantz]

I'll just make one comment and then maybe Mr. Harris can step in.

When we were talking about the new funding, the $140 million recently approved in budget 2022, we sometimes talked about hiring employees. The majority of those employees are being extended. Therefore, the majority of those employees have had their year of training and are up to the productivity level that we expect, and so we have a more predictable level of what we'll need in funding and what they can produce to address the backlog.

We did have some departures. You are right that with accordion effect of giving us temporary money for two years and then extending again for another year or two years, we do lose people, because they find jobs elsewhere or don't want to go through this. We do have some hiring and some training up to do, but we don't think it will have a significant impact. I would leave that to Mr. Harris to speak to.

[Steven Harris]

I think my colleague has actually explained it quite well.

We've done significant work. Ms. Meunier, in a previous position, did amazing work to compress the amount of time required for training. It did used to take about a year to train somebody fully on all aspects of this. We've targeted that training now so it can be done much more quickly.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay, thank you.

That's all the time I have, folks.

Mrs. Wagantall would like to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Yes.

Mrs. Wagantall, you have one minute and 15 seconds.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That sounds great, and then I'll talk to Frank.

Ms. Meunier, has the navigator ever been a standard component of VAC's intake process for benefit applicants? I know you're working hard to streamline and improve the way things work. Is it a tool that you encourage the new employees to use in working with veterans?

[Steven Harris]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I'd answer that question and say that essentially it is a similar intake process. It is the kind of thing we walk through with veterans when we speak to them. Whether that's through our client contact centre, when they speak to people who are veteran service agents or even case managers, we do a bit of an intake process to see what their needs might be. It's very similar to the process that's used there.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Why not just use one method so there's consistency and the ability to see how effective it is going through the process?

Regardless, is there a plan to integrate it as a mandatory first point of entry for all applicants so there is that consistency?

[Steven Harris]

We encourage people to use it, and lots of people are using it. We encourage our Canadian Armed Forces members, as they go through transition. We've integrated in a much stronger way the kinds of transition tools that are in place and that are available to Canadian Armed Forces members as they go through that transition process, and these are some of those tools.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's great.

Are veterans organizations that provide VAC-approved services and supports informed about this benefit, the online navigator tool for veterans to use? It was pretty clear that Ms. Lowther with VETS Canada, who is very engaged, was not aware this tool existed.

[Steven Harris]

I'll certainly follow up with Ms. Lowther. I know, for example, that our veterans service offices that exist in the Legion use it quite regularly, as do some other stakeholders who help us in assisting veterans.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay. Thank you very much.

That's good, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Wagantall. It's my pleasure.

Ms. Valdez, the floor is now yours for five minutes.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for all of your time today.

I have a variety of questions, so bear with me. I'll try to direct them accordingly.

First, Ms. Meunier, congratulations on your role.

This year marks the 77th anniversary of the liberation of the Netherlands. Could you inform this committee on what kinds of commemorative events are being planned?

[Amy Meunier]

Yes.

Actually, I believe there's an event happening this weekend. As you know, we were just in the Netherlands as part of the delegation the minister was just speaking about. We talked with a variety of organizations over there, along with our European operations to do a number of local events in that region. There's also another event happening in Ottawa. There are also smaller events happening across the country.

Was there anything in particular or any event in particular?

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

No, that was perfect. Thank you.

Mr. Harris and Ms. Lantz, I was a project and change manager for years, supporting a North American call centre, so I understand the challenges with training and consistency of services with staff, especially when there's such high turnover.

We heard a lot of pain points when conversing with veterans from the LGBTQ2 community and the organizations that support them. Could you shed some light on how you coach your team that services them and what steps you're taking to make it fairer for LGBTQ2 veterans?

[Steven Harris]

Yes.

There are lots of things we do with respect to training. Thank you for pointing out the requirement to do this and to do it well. We've learned lots of things over the course of stakeholder consultations.

Ms. Meunier spoke earlier about the office of women and LGBTQ2 veterans, which does extensive stakeholder consultations. We have a stakeholder team that speaks regularly with members from a broad spectrum of communities, including the LGBTQ2 community. Over the course of a number of class action settlements—including the Canadian Armed Forces purge settlement, from the public service point of view, and the Merlo/Davidson settlement with respect to the RCMP—we've trained our staff. We actually set up a dedicated unit to be able to respond to claims that were coming in with respect to these class actions.

That training and the experience they've had in terms of interacting with members of, perhaps, communities that have been affected or impacted by military sexual trauma, through the purge or other things, have been expanded and extended to other front-line staff as well. The experience they've had, in terms of learning how some of these concerns are being brought forward from the veterans community, is now being used to help case managers, our veterans service agents and our call centre employees. We are making sure it is being spread so that experience and that sensitivity can be brought through the entire organization.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

We heard from the witnesses quite a bit that empathy is really needed when having conversations, especially because it brings up their pain from the past. Thank you for that.

I'm switching gears.

A substantial part of the ministry's budget, as you know, goes towards the veterans independence program, which provides veterans with care at home. Could you share with us a bit more about that program and whether you've received any positive feedback from veterans thus far?

[Steven Harris]

This is a program that's been in place for many years. It was originally designed to help World War I veterans who were aging rapidly. We wanted to make sure they could stay in their homes. Research has shown, not only among veterans but also among the general population, that staying in your home is a means of staying healthier and well longer. If we can assist you in your home, that's much better for everybody.

The kinds of services provided include things like housekeeping, groundskeeping and snow removal. We may have people come in to help with things like cleaning, washing or meal preparation. This allows people to stay in their homes longer and also provides a bit of respite for other individuals in the family, who may have some responsibilities with respect to caring for a veteran with those requirements, as well.

It's a program that's been in place for a long period of time, quite successfully. In fact, as we move into a postpandemic environment with some of the challenges we face regarding long-term COVID care, there are many conversations around how we can help people stay healthier in their homes longer. Other jurisdictions at the provincial level are looking at something similar to the veterans independence program to do that same sort of thing for populations across Canada.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Speaking of the pandemic, we know the impact it's had on our veterans from a mental health perspective. I just saw in the budget that we announced $140 million over five years.

Could you quickly share with us the plans for those funds?