Veterans Affairs Committee on May 13th, 2022

[Josée Bégin, Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair and committee members, thank you for inviting us to this meeting.

Statistics Canada would like to contribute to the study of the committee on the financial concerns of the marriage over 60 clause in the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act by presenting information on the number of persons who married or entered into a common-law relationship with a veteran after he or she turned 60, as well as their characteristics.

This information was produced last year at the request of Veterans Affairs Canada through a secure linkage of 2018 tax records with various administrative records, including the Department of National Defence - Canadian Forces personnel cohort file and the PSPC Canadian Forces Superannuation Act legacy file. I would like to mention that Statistics Canada's deliverable was limited to producing four data tables to help provide a general understanding of the population size of persons who married or entered into a common-law relationship with a veteran on or after the veteran's 60th birthday and their socio-economic characteristics. Statistics Canada was not asked anything more specific beyond that with regard to the marriage over 60 clause and the current committee study.

Our data show that in 2018, there were between 4,000 and 6,000 persons who married or entered into a common-law relationship with a veteran on or after the veteran's 60th birthday, and the veteran was still living as of 2018. There were between 2,000 and 4,000 persons who married or entered into a common-law relationship with a veteran on or after the veteran's 60th birthday, and the veteran had passed away as of 2018. Spouses were generally aged over 60 and, not surprisingly, those of deceased veterans tended to be older than those of living veterans. Between 95% and 100% of spouses were women.

To simplify my summary of the results, I will now use the term “spouse” to describe persons who married or entered into a common-law relationship with a veteran after they turned 60.

Depending on the data source used, our results show that in 2018, the median income of spouses who entered into a relationship with a veteran aged 60 and over ranged between $26,000 and $35,000, with spouses of deceased veterans reporting the highest median income.

Survivors of veterans who entered into a relationship at age 60 or after received higher government transfers than spouses of living veterans who entered into a relationship at age 60 or after. In 2018, the median amount of government transfers received by spouses of deceased veterans reached $18,000. This compares with a median ranging between $14,000 and $15,000 for spouses of living veterans. Spouses of deceased veterans also had higher private pension income than spouses of living veterans, with a difference of about $2,000.

While widowed spouses of veterans who entered into a relationship at age 60 or after had higher personal income than spouses of living veterans, they were more likely to be in a situation of low income. In 2018, the proportion of low income ranged between 19% and 23% among spouses of deceased veterans who entered into a relationship at age 60 and over, compared with a proportion ranging between 8% and 11% among spouses of living veterans who entered into a relationship at age 60 and over. The higher prevalence of low income among survivors of veterans is likely related to the fact that these spouses were more likely to be living in a one-income household. In 2018, more than four in five widowed spouses of veterans who married at age 60 and over lived alone.

The Maritimes and the province of Quebec generally had the highest proportions of survivors of veterans who entered into a relationship at age 60 and over living in a situation of low income. Across age groups, the occurrence of low income was highest among widowed spouses aged under 60.

Statistics Canada is committed to monitoring trends pertaining to Canadian military life. For example, in partnership with Veterans Affairs Canada and the Department of National Defence, a report was prepared last year on the prerelease and postrelease income of regular force veterans.

This concludes our opening remarks.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Bégin, for finishing within the allotted time.

I am assuming that M. Heisz has no opening remarks.

We will now move on to the first round of questions.

Mr. Tolmie, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the panel of witnesses for coming and joining us today.

I have a number of questions that I would like to ask you, understanding that you're just presenting information you've uncovered. We're not going to hold your feet to the fire, if I can say it that way, but we appreciate this is just information that's being provided. I would like to get a sense of how widespread this issue is.

How does the number of survivors who don't qualify for their spouses pension compare to the number of widows who do? Would you have that information?

[Josée Bégin]

Was the question regarding those who qualified?

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

I can repeat the question for you.

How does the number of survivors who don't qualify for their spouses pension compare to the number of widows who do?

[Josée Bégin]

Thank you for repeating the question. As I've said in my opening remarks, Statistics Canada was asked for a very specific deliverable. The information we have presented is very limited in terms of understanding the population and the socio-economic characteristics of those who married a veteran who was aged 60 and over. We do not have information in terms of the spouses or widows who would have qualified. That was not included in the record linkage that we did.

I'm going to turn to my colleague Andrew to see if he has anything to add.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Go ahead, Mr. Heisz.

[Andrew Heisz, Director, Centre for Income and Socioeconomic Well-being Statistics, Statistics Canada]

I agree with what Josée said. The linkage that we were asked to put together, the data that we were asked to put together, referred only to the 60-plus population. I imagine that the widows of survivors would have been in an age group younger than that, if they had qualified for receiving the pension. We weren't asked to investigate that particular part of the population.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

I have a couple more questions here that I would like to ask.

How does the income of survivors compare to that of those who married under the age of 60? Does one group generally have other sources of income?

[Josée Bégin]

I want to make sure that I understand all the nuances in your question. Again, the four tables we provided to the committee focus on those who married a veteran at the age of 60 and over. We do not have information available in front of us in terms of being able to speak to the various sources of income for spouses or widows of veterans who would have married before that age.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

All right.

I am very interested in your comments with regard to the Maritimes and Quebec. I'd like to get your take on that. Did your study discover any reasons as to why the Maritimes and Quebec had higher proportions of survivors living in a low-income situation?

[Josée Bégin]

I want to clarify, Mr. Chair, that Statistics Canada did not conduct a study. The work we did around those four Excel tables was really based on cost-recovery work. We were approached by Veterans Affairs Canada to prepare those tables. We did not go into detail in terms of what would be the possible factors influencing the various situations of the widowed spouses of veterans.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Tolmie.

We will now go to Mr. Wilson Miao for six minutes, please.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I think it's me, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon to you and to our colleagues.

Thank you to our witnesses from Statistics Canada for joining us today.

Ms. Bégin or Mr. Heisz, the data you shared shows that most recipients live in eastern Canada, while western Canada has much fewer pension recipients. Do you have any idea of the reason or the rationale behind this?

[Josée Bégin]

Mr. Chair, I will turn to my colleague Andrew to see if he would like to answer that question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Please go ahead, Mr. Heisz.

[Andrew Heisz]

Thank you.

No, we don't have any particular insight into that. I can imagine that it might be associated with the distribution of veterans and persons in service across Canada. It may be related to that. As Ms. Bégin has said a couple of times, we didn't explore the data in a way that would cause us to have come up with a definite conclusion on that question.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

In your research into the income gap between men and women, did you do anything specific that went deeper into that area? If so, what are your findings?

[Josée Bégin]

Mr. Chair, I would like to clarify the question with Ms. Valdez.

Are you referring in your question to the population in general in terms of the income gap between men and women, or specifically to this population that we have covered in our Excel tables?

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

That's a good clarification. I'm referring specifically to the data in your tables.

[Josée Bégin]

On that, Mr. Chair, I will turn to my colleague Andrew.

[Andrew Heisz]

Thank you.

I would say that, in this data, the proportion of male survivors and men who are married to an alive veteran, at the time that we were able to see them, is fairly small. Therefore, I would be quite hesitant to draw conclusions about the reasons for the differences between the incomes of the two groups.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

There was a research study conducted by Stats Canada and the Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research. The findings were that 4,490, who were almost exclusively women, would qualify for the veterans survivors fund.

Can you give an estimated date of when, or if you are aware of when, this program could be launched, and how many would be eligible, based on your research?

[Josée Bégin]

Thank you for the question.

We were not aware of that research. My colleague Andrew and I are experts in terms of income-related data or socio-economic data. We were not involved in the particular study that you cited, so we wouldn't be able to provide additional information in terms of the occurrence or the frequency of that study.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'll just change a little bit some of my questioning.

We just heard from witnesses in our previous discussion. What I'm reflecting on is this: How many people does the current law negatively affect? Could you touch on anything like that?