Evidence of meeting #14 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pension.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:05 p.m.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada
Mr. Chair, I will turn to my colleague Andrew.
3:05 p.m.
Director, Centre for Income and Socioeconomic Well-being Statistics, Statistics Canada
Thank you for your question.
Again, it's really very difficult for us to say. Perhaps I could explain in a little bit more detail what we have here that we can talk about.
What we have here are the results of an exercise wherein records for veterans and persons who in the past had received or currently are receiving a pension were integrated with other data so that we could see if there was evidence that they were married after 60. Then we looked at those spouses to see what their incomes were in 2018.
In some ways that's a very simple approach. It tells us about the population of individuals we were able to observe in the data who would potentially be in the situation where they married after 60, where they potentially could be or may not be eligible for the pension program you're interested in here. We don't have a marker in our data that indicates whether or not the people do receive that program.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Rechie Valdez Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Could you speak to anything in your data, or explain why women are still receiving significantly lower incomes, benefits or pensions?
3:05 p.m.
Director, Centre for Income and Socioeconomic Well-being Statistics, Statistics Canada
The table itself does indicate that women spouses—whether they be survivors or spouses of living veterans—did have lower total incomes in 2018. The different components of the incomes are offered there as well.
To answer your question, though, which is fairly specific, I would need to look across the table to say, okay, this is how much came from earnings and this is how much came from their pensions. I don't think you really want me to do that right now, but if you'd like me to elaborate in a follow-up message, I think there'd be a way we could do that.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Rechie Valdez Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
I'd appreciate that. Thank you.
That's everything for me, Mr. Chair.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Ms. Valdez.
We will now continue with the second vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Luc Desilets.
Over to you, Mr. Desilets.
3:05 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank our two guests for coming.
To be honest, I found the tables complicated. Numbers are not my strong suit, but they are yours. And yet I studied the pure sciences when I was in CEGEP.
Am I to understand that Statistics Canada doesn't analyze these figures?
3:05 p.m.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada
Thank you very much for your question, Mr. Desilets.
In this particular instance, for the four tables I mentioned, Statistics Canada's mandate did not include an analysis. As I explained earlier, Statistics Canada often has cost recovery contracts with other departments. In these contracts, we study specific populations collaboratively.
Statistics Canada has many rich sources of information on socioeconomic data that can help in understanding the labour market impact or trajectories for certain population groups.
3:05 p.m.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada
But for these tables, analysis was not part of the mandate.
3:05 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I clearly understand what you're saying.
If the department requested it, you could do it. Is that right?
3:05 p.m.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada
Yes. Generally speaking, we have the analytical capacity and the tools. Of course, we would need access to the sources of information that would enable us to answer a specific question.
3:05 p.m.
Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ
That's clear. That then will be among my requests and recommendations, because these raw numbers don't provide me with enough information. The members of the committee need to go beyond these figures so that they can make honest and straightforward recommendations.
You had also declined our initial invitation. Was that because you didn't have the raw data yet and were not comfortable in presenting it to us? Could it be that?
3:05 p.m.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada
I can answer that question, Mr. Chair.
I appeared before several committees.
Statistics Canada is often invited to appear before committees. In this instance, we didn't have any information to provide when we receive the request. We therefore thought that it would not be useful to come to the committee simply to tell you that we didn't have any information to add. That's why we supplied the tables that we developed with our partners at the Department of Veterans Affairs.
3:05 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
What specific request gave rise to the preparation of the tables you gave us? What was the initial request and what precisely was asked of you?
3:05 p.m.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada
I'll ask my colleague, Mr. Heisz, to take that one, because he's the person who has the information.
3:05 p.m.
Director, Centre for Income and Socioeconomic Well-being Statistics, Statistics Canada
We can give you the general question, as well as some copies of the letter of agreement, which you could add to the minutes of today's meeting. It describes all the details that we used to prepare our table.
3:05 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
All right, but can we have the specific request that you received?
3:05 p.m.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada
Yes, we can get that for you. As my colleague said, we prepared a letter of agreement with the Department of Veterans Affairs. The specific request is very clear, as is how it got to us .
3:05 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Could we send you an official request for these documents, meaning the request letter and the other documents Mr. Heisz just mentioned.
I also like to ask why you used 2018 data rather than data from last year? I've been wondering about that.
3:05 p.m.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada
When we receive an information request of this kind, we usually look for the most up-to-date available data. My colleague Mr. Heisz explained that we had used tax data. We have a file on families, which we can recreate as required. It was probably the latest available version we had when we received the request.
3:05 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Okay..
I have a final question for you.
I understand why you separated the quantitative data on the basis of living and deceased veterans, but I don't understand what's in the files called CFCAM, the Canadian Forces Cancer and Mortality study, and PSPC, Public Services and Procurement Canada.
Could you please explain the difference between these two files for me?
3:05 p.m.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socioeconomic Well-Being, Statistics Canada
It's related to Public Services and Procurement Canada's Canadian Forces Superannuation Act. It contains information about the spouses of Canadian Armed Forces veterans who have received, or are continuing to receive, pension benefits.
The other file we used, called CFCAM, contains information about the spouses of veterans designated by the department, whether or not they receive pension benefits.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much, Ms. Bégin and Mr. Desilets.
We will now give the floor to Ms. Rachel Blaney.
You have six minutes, Ms. Blaney.