Evidence of meeting #21 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL
I appreciate that. I think you referenced 43 employees being lost, at one point.
October 6th, 2022 / 4:20 p.m.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
Yes.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL
When I hear those numbers, I think about what we've been through during the pandemic, which impacted government operations.
From your perspective, are we on the right track to address these backlogs? None of us is happy with this. Obviously, we need to take better care of our veterans. Do you think we're racing toward where we should be, in terms of meeting the timelines and standards?
4:20 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
One main finding in our audit was that because of the poor management of files and the lack of traceable targets for those initiatives we mentioned, neither our office nor the department was able to demonstrate that the initiatives were actually making things better. What we're seeing is that there wasn't really an improvement in the wait times.
I appreciate that eliminating files in a backlog is an improvement, because any file treated, or any veteran receiving a communication about their benefits, is an improvement. However, it's not dealing with the root cause. It takes far longer than the service standard, right now, to get notification about a file. I can't tell you whether, based on our audit.... It doesn't look as if they're headed in the right direction, but I haven't looked at anything past September 2021.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL
I have family members in the military. I'm hoping that once they are in a position to retire and need services, they can get them in a timely manner. We all have a vested interest, for all the veterans who have served in the military, the RCMP and so on. We hope we're on a better track to address some of these issues.
Do you think larger investments from government might help?
4:25 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
I'm not the first to tell you that I don't think money is always the solution to a problem. In this case, stable funding for permanent staff to help deal with increased volume is a solution.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
It's over.
The next two members will have two and a half minutes of speaking time each.
Mr. Desilets you have the floor.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Hogan, do you think that a target of 16 weeks wait time is achievable?
4:25 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
After this year, anybody could say it is not achievable, given the processes that are in place at present.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
We therefore come back to the fact that it may be a structural problem.
Like you, I think money does not solve everything, but there is something in the system that is not working, since the problem has lasted six years.
What do you think?
4:25 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
Revising the target is a recommendation that Veterans Affairs Canada received following an external review. The department decided not to revise the target or divide it into two targets, to make one for initial reports, for example, so it would be more transparent and clearer for veterans.
It rejected that recommendation because it believed that its initiatives were going to improve the processing of applications.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I understand.
We all know that the time starts to be counted at the point when the application is complete, but do you have an idea of the median time that veterans wait from when their application is filed?
4:25 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
That depends on several factors. Sometimes the veteran has not provided all the necessary information, and that results in several exchanges of correspondence with the department.
There is also all the medical information that has to be received from the departments. All of that certainly prolongs the wait time.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
4:25 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
In our report, at paragraph 2.18, I think it says approximately 22 weeks.
4:25 p.m.
Director, Office of the Auditor General
That is the time between when the application is received and when the application is complete.
On the question of the additional wait time in cases where information is found to be missing when the application is received, that should be the difference between 48 weeks and 39 weeks: approximately nine or ten weeks.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
So that represents a wait time of two and a half months, which is in addition to the delays that occur in processing applications.
Is that right?
4:25 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
Yes, I think it is a median time of nine additional weeks wait time.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Mr. Desilets.
Now I'd like to invite Ms. Rachel Blaney for two and a half minutes.
Please go ahead.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Chair.
It reminds me of a couple of years ago. The PBO, of course, did a report. One thing it mentioned was that to actually start addressing these things in a meaningful way—the disability backlog, specifically—there would need to be a significant amount of hiring people. Based on how long it was taking to get it done, this was the only way to move forward.
One thing that came up was how many people were being hired temporarily. We've heard testimony that because people are being hired temporarily, some of them are finding permanent jobs in other departments within the government, and therefore not staying. We know that it takes a while to train people up to have that full capacity.
You mentioned in the report as well that there's no long-term plan on hiring, which we know is a concern for everybody in this country and across the world. We're really struggling to find people.
You've mentioned a couple of times the need for permanency and stable funding to provide support to have that permanent workforce.
With those two things, is the concern that the temporary people don't have the knowledge that they're going to be able to stay, so they move and it continues with having to retrain people? For the other part of that, is any data being collected by the department to track whether people are being hired on temporarily and then leaving? Is that being captured?
4:30 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
As Martin mentioned earlier, we mention in a paragraph in the report that they had estimated that when 43 individuals left over a period of time, the impact was about 5,000 applications being unable to be treated. There's a really clear impact from those temporary employees leaving.
The department needs to do a good assessment of what permanent staff it needs. There is likely a need for some temporary individuals to deal with peaks and backlogs, but there is a clear need to have a more permanent, stable workforce. The demands we saw over a five-year period increased almost 75%. It's reality that there's just more demand. The staffing needs to line up with that.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
It makes sense. If it's been seven years since they've met their standard, perhaps that would be essential in moving forward.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you so much, Ms. Blaney.
Now I'd like to invite Mrs. Cathay Wagantall for five minutes, please.