Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 24th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay. Your motion has been received. According to the rules, it will be debated at a future meeting so that it can be passed. Normally, 48 hours' notice must be given with motions.

Isn't that right?

One moment, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Chair, it's my understanding that we don't need notice, because of the subject matter of the meeting.

I'm quite confident, given what we've heard today.... I'm sure everyone is shocked by this situation, and everyone recognizes the contradictions. Obviously, you have to open it up for debate, but I'm hopeful that we won't need debate and that we can all just pass this. Maybe we can even have consensus to do so, and then we can carry on with witness testimony. That's my hope.

I'll put that to the committee before you open it up for debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Because your motion is on the subject that we are discussing right now, we don't have to wait 24 or 48 hours.

The motion is on the table, if there is any discussion. I will stop the time for the witnesses.

I'd like to know if there is any discussion. Would anyone like to speak to it?

Go ahead, Monsieur Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have a question about procedure, Mr. Chair.

We had talked about having two or three meetings on the current subject. Would the motion place the third meeting a few weeks away, when the minister and MPs are available?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

In his motion, Mr. Richards talked about holding the meeting in the next month, I believe. if you would like to move an amendment, you're free to do so.

Go ahead, Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I think the minister should appear. This issue needs to be cleared up, and I would hope that they would want to appear as quickly as possible. I was simply allowing for scheduling. I know that can be an issue, but I would strongly suggest that this meeting happen as quickly as it can.

Following that, we can probably, as a committee, determine what our next steps would need to be, if any, but I do think it's important that there are lots of contradictions here that need to be cleared up as soon as possible. I would think the minister and his officials would want to clear those up as quickly as they can, as well.

Although I'm leaving that latitude for them, I think it should be strongly suggested, when we write to the minister, that they not leave it for a month, and try to come as quickly as they can, but we obviously need to give some flexibility for scheduling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much. The clerk will work on that situation.

It's on the condition that the motion passes.

Ms. Wagantall, you have the floor.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I think there's some confusion around what Mr. Desilets was saying, because we had said two or three meetings. This is our second. Did we have a third one scheduled at this point?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

No, I don't think so, because next—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Is this a third meeting or a fourth meeting that we're asking for on top of the two or three? Is that what you were trying to determine?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I can add something to that, Mr. Chair.

My understanding is that as a committee, the decision had been made to have three meetings. We've only had two, so there obviously needs to be another one.

I don't know if there are other witnesses we still could hear from on this, and we also don't know what might come from the meeting that we have with the minister. In my mind, I think we should be prepared as a committee to make that decision following that meeting—whether there need to be more meetings, and how many of them there should be.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'd like to tell the committee that, yes, we agreed to three meetings, and for the third meeting we have no witnesses, so that's why for Thursday we were supposed to work on the report on marriage after 60.

The motion is on the table.

Go ahead.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

We have no opposition to that. We feel that the committee could ask the department, realizing that the minister may have some commitments, but I think it's important that we get a chance to speak with the department again. We're okay on that front, for sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Richards, first of all I'm going to ask everyone if there is no opposition on that.

We have the motion on the table.

Before we vote, I will give you the floor, Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

The only thing I would like to raise is that.... I see the case for bringing back the minister and the senior officials, given the contradictory evidence today. I think we should probably bear in mind what was said at the last meeting, that the investigation is under way but not complete. I think it would be reasonable for us to expect the senior officials, and arguably the minister, to come back when it is complete.

I just throw that out there. If we wait for them to finish their work and then have them come in to discuss it, including the testimony that came to light here today, would that not make more sense, to get a more complete picture?

That would be my only concern. I have no concerns, in principle, on bringing them back. The only question I have is around timing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

I'd like to invite Mr. Fraser Tolmie.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

I see that as two different issues. I see that we got contradictory information the last time he was here, so that's an issue that we would like to deal with right away. If there is something that comes back from the continuing investigation, then I see that as a different issue.

I appreciate the comments from Mr. Casey, but I think there are two different issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Mr. Richards, go ahead.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Yes, I essentially had the same thought.

Obviously, if there's a need or a desire for the minister to come back once the investigation is completed, that would be welcomed and I think that probably should occur, but I don't think we should be waiting for that when we're talking about the kinds of contradictions we've heard today. I think the minister would even, I would hope, want the opportunity to clarify those as soon as possible, and we want to offer him that opportunity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Ms. Blaney, go ahead.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I agree with this motion. I think we've heard things today that make all of us concerned. It's important for us to be accountable to the veterans who've served us so well and to make sure that we help with that accountability.

I also know that the committee requested very clearly in the last meeting that when this work at the department is done, they would send us a report as soon as it is completed. Once that report is completed and sent to the committee, I think we can take the next step in what we want to do, but I don't think we need to wait until then for the minister and the department to come. Hopefully we can allow the chair to see unanimous consent and we can have the minister and the department in quickly. Then, if we have to call them back again because of the report that we receive, that is something we can respectfully do.

At the end of the day, this shows all of us coming together to work hard for veterans. I think that's where our focus has to remain.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay. Thank you so much.

My understanding is that the motion is to invite the minister and the deputy minister as soon as possible. I'd like to know if there is opposition to adopt that motion.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

To clarify, the motion would be to invite them to be here as soon as possible, but in any case no later than November 24, so within the next month.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

That's perfect. Do we agree on that?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Let's come back to the question of witnesses.

Mr. Richards, you have two minutes to ask your questions. You have the floor.