If I can, Mr. Chair, I think the parliamentary secretary actually makes the very point I'm trying to make. We've had these conversations before in this committee. This committee did reports previously. It's always, “We're just kind of starting. We're going to see what we can do.”
The whole point I'm making here is this: How do we measure that what we're doing is having success? We can't keep having the conversation over and over again. I don't really think it's a point of order, so maybe we can go back to the witnesses—