Evidence of meeting #33 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
If demand were higher, could you take in more than 200 students?
Executive Director, Professional Development Institute, University of Ottawa
Yes, we could, especially as the program is set up to be online and self-paced. I wouldn't say that the sky is the limit, but we could take in many more participants without weighing down the program.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
You don't require any funding from Veterans Affairs Canada?
Executive Director, Professional Development Institute, University of Ottawa
It isn't necessary, because the program is a self-financing one.
Bloc
Executive Director, Professional Development Institute, University of Ottawa
There are two possibilities, but I would say that there would be a few wrinkles to iron out first.
The first problem is that a potential student can't start the program as long as he or she has not been completely relieved of their duties, even if the request for release from military service has been approved. If the student could start the program as soon as he or she knows that they will be released, there wouldn't be that delay between the last day of service and the first day in a learning environment due to the process that involves submitting an application, a request for funding, and so on. That's the first problem.
The second problem is security clearance. Unless the student starts a job the very next day following his or her release, he or she loses their security clearance. This causes a delay and a problem in terms of employability, because students who have completed the program successfully have to make a new request for security clearance. That process can often take nine or 10 months, even a year. I have been told that there is a system that allows security clearance to be temporarily extended. It would indeed be useful to extend that clearance while the student takes the course and that another security clearance be issued as soon as the person accepts an offer of employment.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Our committee can help get the message across for this sort of thing.
Executive Director, Professional Development Institute, University of Ottawa
We would appreciate it. Those would be our two recommendations.
Executive Director, Professional Development Institute, University of Ottawa
In your discussions with the previous group of witnesses, you spoke of entrepreneurship programs, for example, for service members that leave the military. We are already offering entrepreneurship programs, and we could absolutely welcome veterans.
Yes, employability and entrepreneurship—which you were talking about, Ms. Blaney—is something we already do across the country, and we could very well open it up to service members. That's for sure.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you.
Mr. Blais, you finished your answer by speaking to Ms. Blaney, and she will now have the floor for six minutes.
Ms. Blaney, you will be the last one to speak to this group of witnesses.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.
If I could come to you, Ms. Maclean, first of all I want to say how much I enjoyed reading your research. It was very informative, and I appreciate the time you took to do that important work.
My first question is really about the “Let's Talk Veterans” strategy that they use to consult with veterans. I noted and asked a question of VAC when they were here, and they acknowledged that the outreach did not include a specific strategy to do outreach to the groups that you mentioned are really having particular challenges. However, they said they would implement that at a later date.
Do you have any thoughts on what would be the best strategies to outreach? We know that the outcomes for younger veterans, veterans with disabilities, female veterans and medically released veterans are really challenging. It's not working well. Do you have any feedback? Based on your research, based on the things that you learned, what would be the most effective way to outreach to those folks and make sure that this strategy actually includes solutions that will work for those stakeholder groups?
PhD Candidate, Queen's University, As an Individual
I would be pretty specific about perhaps even doing focus groups with some of those groups, and maybe separately, as well, because there are a few things we don't understand. LASS is a great resource, but it's quantitative research. There hasn't been a lot of qualitative research done with those groups to better understand their satisfaction with their employment and their bumpy road post-release back to parity in terms of earnings, and why they are moving so often between employers in the first few years. I think we need to understand that more qualitatively than we do now. That doesn't usually come from any kinds of open consultations that require people to come forward. The most vulnerable groups are the least likely, in any research or any types of outreach efforts, to come in. They need to be targeted quite specifically.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you for that.
I read some of your research. It talked specifically about the fact that female veterans have been found to experience higher overall disability risk, and it also noted a higher rate of injury in the initial military training.
In the research you have done, does this relate specifically to future employment opportunities?
PhD Candidate, Queen's University, As an Individual
Yes. One of the areas that are very important in the employment world is work disability. That's very complicated, so I tried to give a little bit about evidence-based interventions to prevent work disability, but one of the things that women, older veterans and those with disabilities experience is ageism, sexism and ableism all combined. A lot of veterans are getting out in their forties and fifties and are still seeking employment, because the pensions don't necessarily take them to the age of 65 or potentially beyond.
Older Canadians and older veterans, I'm sure, as well, experience a lot of ageism and have a harder time finding a job and a longer time finding a job than younger people.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you for that.
One of the things that I struggle with is the fact that we in Canada still have very low numbers of female service members. Those numbers are still low, and no matter what they seem to want to do, it's not actually resulting in more women joining the forces. When I look at the outcomes for female veterans, it seems to me that there might be a cycle here that we should be considering.
We saw in your research that most female veterans do not stay for the 20 years. That means, of course, that when they leave, they do not have that resource to help support them. What I saw in your research is that male veterans would have the 20 years and have their pension plus their employment, which would allow for better outcomes. Female veterans do not have that.
Based on that, is there any information you can give us? Is there a particular trend? Why are women not staying in our service?
PhD Candidate, Queen's University, As an Individual
That's a great question. I don't know the answer to it, but I think you did allude to their having poorer outcomes. Part of recruitment is about the experiences of others and recommendations to join the military or not to join the military based on their own experiences.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you so much.
Before going back to the witnesses, I would like to ask members a question. You know we have a budget for that study, and I would like to have your approval for that.
Mr. Richards.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
I actually had a question on it. I don't have it in front of me. I wasn't prepared to discuss it, but I had noticed that the amount for the Toronto witnesses seemed quite high.
I would agree we probably shouldn't discuss it now, but if it's just a matter of my getting clarification so we can pass it, I'm okay with that. I did just notice that it was quite a high amount.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Yes, we have an explanation for that, but I think Mrs. Wagantall would like to speak.
January 30th, 2023 / 5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
It just seems inappropriate that we're discussing that with our witnesses here. We have an opportunity to either ask them more questions or thank them for coming.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
No. Asking more questions is not possible because it's 5:30, but I want to take just a minute before we adjourn the meeting because we need this approval in order to continue the study.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Okay. Thank you.
The clerk has answers on it. It's an estimate. Please go ahead.