Veterans Affairs Committee on Jan. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

As we are beginning a new year, I wish you all a happy new year. Thank you for being here to do work on veterans' behalf.

Welcome to meeting number 33 of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Monday, October 3, 2022, the committee commences its study on a national strategy for veterans' employment after service.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022. This means that members can participate remotely, like Darrell Samson.

Before you speak, please wait for me to recognize you by name. If you are participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone.

I remind you that all comments from members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

In accordance with our routine motion regarding connection testing, I wish to inform the committee that all witnesses have completed the required connection testing prior to the meeting.

Now, I would like to welcome our witnesses.

From the Department of Veterans Affairs, we have Steven Harris, assistant deputy minister, service delivery branch; Jane Hicks, acting director general, service delivery and program management; Lieutenant-Colonel (Retired) Chris Hutt, CD, director, transition and program support, service delivery branch; and Nathan Svenson, director, research.

I will now turn the floor over to the first witness.

Mr. Harris, you are a regular on our committee. Unfortunately, I don't have my coloured cards today, but I will signal to you when you have a minute left and then when your time is up.

I know. I'm so sorry.

Mr. Harris, you have the floor for the next five minutes.

[Steven Harris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair and members, it is my pleasure to be here today to speak about the work our department is doing to support Canada's veterans in securing employment in their post-military life.

On average, 8,500 Canadian Armed Forces members release from service every year. Among this population, approximately 4,000 to 4,500 seek second careers. Statistically, the population of unemployed veterans is comparable to the Canadian average: about 6.6% for Canadians and about 4.5% for veterans. Unfortunately, veterans are more likely to report under-employment and dissatisfaction with not being employed to their full potential.

We know veterans develop many skills throughout their military careers, including leadership, analytical skills, problem-solving and strong communication. We want to support them and provide them with services and tools to realize their career goals. Of course, we know that any workplace transition can be difficult and that veterans can struggle with adapting to the civilian workplace culture.

Veterans Affairs Canada is committed to a whole‑of‑government approach in developing a comprehensive strategy to improve employment opportunities for veterans, promote their well-being, and contribute to their success as they transition to civilian life.

The transition experience is most successful when veterans are able to thrive in various areas of life. Therefore, Veterans Affairs Canada has established a framework for monitoring veteran well-being, which considers seven domains of well-being, including health, life skills, social integration, cultural and social environment, housing and physical environment, and financial security, which is an important goal.

The life after service studies program of research is a partnership between Veterans Affairs Canada and Statistics Canada that began in 2010. The information collected is used to measure the level of well-being among veterans and to inform policies and programs. The program has provided a wealth of information on the health and well-being of veterans and the factors that contribute to adjustment to civilian life. Statistics Canada conducted surveys in 2016 and 2019. The information obtained allows us to better understand veterans' experiences and needs.

The National Census of Canada will also provide Veterans Affairs Canada with valuable information. In 2021, for the first time in 50 years, veterans were identified in the Statistics Canada census. Statistics Canada data released in the fall of 2022 will provide Veterans Affairs Canada with a comprehensive view of the employment situation among the veteran population.

There are many partners involved in supporting veteran employment: stakeholders, employers, advocates, non-governmental organizations, and municipal and provincial governments. The aim of our strategy is to bring many of these components under a unified vision that best serves veterans and their families. We currently support veterans by easing their transition and maximizing opportunities for employment in the public service, private sector or through self-employment.

I'd like to give you some examples of the work that the department has undertaken with respect to supporting veteran employment. Our veterans employment unit is dedicated to supporting veteran employment and career transition. We provide professional career transition support, which includes one-to-one career counselling that helps veterans find work by connecting with potential employers and developing a personalized education or training plan using the education and training benefit.

We are using social media and LinkedIn to connect Canadian veterans with Canadian employers. During the pandemic, we launched a LinkedIn group that, in just over a year, has grown to 3,000 members. About 75% of them are veterans and 25% are employers, recruiters or human resources professionals.

Over the past two years, Veterans Affairs Canada has hosted a series of webinars focused on employment opportunities for veterans and transitioning Canadian Forces members. More than 2,500 people have registered for the series, with an average of 300 people attending each session. More than 100 Canadian employers, including at least a dozen federal departments and agencies, have attended and assisted veterans.

We created a one-stop job bank for veterans—a portal where employers can select candidates—and worked with labour market experts to develop materials to help people.

I would like to stress that Veterans Affairs is involved in supporting many stakeholders that support veteran employment. All of the support gives veterans options.

We'd be happy to take your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Mr. Harris, for your opening remarks.

We'll now begin the first round of questions. We're going to start with the vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Blake Richards, for six minutes, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you. I appreciate your opening remarks, and I certainly applaud the initiative to try to do everything you can to ensure there are meaningful employment opportunities for our veterans. Obviously, recently, with some of the things that have been going on, we've had a fair amount of disagreement about what's happening at Veterans Affairs, but on this we do not. I'm quite pleased to see the direction going forward.

I also will point out, notwithstanding the fact that on the panel today we have four of you here from Veterans Affairs, we do have one of the four, 25%, who is a veteran himself. Lieutenant-Colonel Hutt, thank you for your service to our country. That doesn't seem to be the norm within the department. One out of four would be quite high, actually, in terms of the number of people employed at the department. I think it's really important to practise what you preach. If we want to see more veterans employed, it seems to me Veterans Affairs would be a great place to start. I know the latest numbers I could find were from 2019, and the numbers were not very good.

I hope you can tell me that it's improved in the few years since then, but what percentage of employees...? Would you have an overall number of employees at Veterans Affairs who were veterans themselves?

[Steven Harris]

I don't have a specific number for you at this point in time. We do collect the information with respect to veterans who are part of the department. It is on a voluntary basis, so it would not be a comprehensive number I would be able to give you, as some people choose to declare their past military service and some don't.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

The numbers I saw were from 2019, and it was 167 out of 3,198 employees, or about 5.2%. It sounds like that may be slightly low, potentially, based on what you just said, but either way, that could be a lot better.

Could you tell us anything about what you're doing to improve those numbers within Veterans Affairs?

[Steven Harris]

We certainly prioritize veteran hiring, and not only within Veterans Affairs. We'll talk more about how it's been prioritized in the federal government as well. We prioritized it when we had additional resources given to us to assist in disability adjudication. We prioritized it in all of our posters, essentially, going out and advertising for positions within the department. We continue to recruit folks from past military life and service in order to add their expertise to the work that we do, including in the employment unit. Chris is one representative of our employment unit who's here, but there are others and they also include more veterans and former Canadian Armed Forces members.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay. I would just encourage you to do everything you can, because if you don't set the example.... When you go to the private sector or when any of us go to the private sector and say that we want to see more veterans employed and it's something we all want to support, then if you can't say that you're leading by example, it makes it that much more difficult, obviously.

The other thing I wanted to ask you about is this. Obviously, in a lot of cases, especially for those who have served for a long period of time in the military or those who have served in very difficult circumstances, there's often a need for services from Veterans Affairs to be able to make that transition and to be able to move to a civilian type of employment. That can sometimes take some time. I think one of the big challenges many veterans are facing now is the length of time it takes to get some of those services from Veterans Affairs. That length of time is a barrier for veterans to be able to be employed. We're hearing that a year or two years is not atypical for those kinds of things.

There was a recent indication from the Auditor General that over the last couple of years.... I think it was 29% a couple of years ago and 42% last year in terms of specific programs intended to assist veterans with that transition from military to civilian life. The number of programs that are actually getting the service standards met is a very low number in terms of veterans getting what they would expect in the length of time that they would expect it. That's a big barrier to moving to civilian life.

What are you doing to improve that so that Veterans Affairs isn't standing in the way of veterans being able to gain meaningful employment?

[Steven Harris]

While it's fair to say that we've had some delays in disability benefits processing, we've made some good progress on that. You were just indicating some of it.

In terms of programs that help support veterans with employment and with transition, we actually make a great effort to make sure they get access quickly. They get very quick access to career transition services. They can get access to career transition services before they actually leave the military and continue that afterwards. They can get access to a rehabilitation program quite quickly as well. Again, that helps support a post-military transition to other employment.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Can you give me some specific examples of things that you're doing to try to improve that? When you talk about 42% being the number that veterans are being served within the time it's expected in terms of service standards, that's a pretty low number. I would like to hear some specifics on exactly what you're doing to improve those numbers. If we want to see veterans get meaningful employment, the first step has to be getting proper and timely service from Veterans Affairs.

[Steven Harris]

That low number doesn't actually apply to most transition programs related to employment.

Jane, I don't know if you want to add anything about career transition services.

[Jane Hicks, Acting Director General, Service Delivery and Program Management, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Sure.

With rehabilitation, veterans can apply prior to their release. It's independent and completely separate from disability benefits. They can have a decision prior to their release and then receive the benefits thereafter.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Just hold on one second, because the number I'm quoting is actually the percentage of veterans who would agree with the statement, and this is the statement: Because of the veteran family program, I have increased access to programs and services to assist me or my veteran's transition from military to civilian life. They're actually talking about the transition from military to civilian life.

You know, if 42% of veterans are saying they're satisfied, it means that more than half of them are not. Something needs to change there. I would really like to hear what it is you think you could do to make that happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Richards, I'm sorry. You are over the time. Maybe you will get that answer next time.

I would now like to invite Mr. Churence Rogers to take the floor for six minutes, please.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome to our guests today.

Folks, in 2021 our government made a mandate commitment to launch a national veterans employment strategy. I'd like you to expand on that a little bit, but more importantly, what's being done now to support veterans who are finishing their careers or are partway through their careers and want to move on from the military into civilian life? What kinds of supports are out there for them? What is the department doing to make sure that these veterans are aware of these supports?

[Jane Hicks]

There are quite a number of supports available for veterans as they transition from the military. There is the rehabilitation program. There are career transition services, vocational rehabilitation. Those are just a few of the services that are available to assist veterans as they transition from the military into civilian life.

In terms of the national veterans strategy, we've been working over the fall on consulting. We've been consulting with veterans, with employers. This month, we'll be consulting with our colleagues to learn more about some of the challenges, the barriers and how we can develop the national employment strategy. It has helped to inform the strategy. We've learned quite a bit over the past few months in terms of some of the challenges that veterans are experiencing.

Is it okay if I continue, or...?

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

You can, yes.

[Jane Hicks]

We've learned that there are some challenges. Particularly, veterans' skills sets and occupations don't translate easily into the civilian workforce. They also sometimes find moving into the public service challenging—the application process. Employers don't always understand their résumés.

There are certainly opportunities for improvement. Those are a few things that we've noticed in particular.

They also don't know where to look. There's so much information out there in terms of employment. With regard to the strategy, obviously what we want to look at is providing a cohesive framework or a portal, so they know where to go to get assistance when they need it, in terms of employment.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

The other question on my mind is whether there is any work being done by the department to determine the correlation between meaningful jobs and the mental health of veterans who decide to enter the workforce after they leave the military.

[Steven Harris]

There is work under way, on a regular basis, from our research group, in talking about the correlation among all of the elements of well-being. We talked a little bit about them in the opening statement, about seven elements of well-being. They all relate to one another. Your financial security relates to how you might feel about your situation and your circumstance in terms of addressing your transition. Your housing may have an impact on that.

I'll maybe ask Nathan to talk a little bit about some of the work we do in terms of correlating employment, mental health and wellness, and well-being.

[Nathan Svenson, Director, Research, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you.

What we found is that the seven different domains of well-being really are interrelated and interconnected. You can't impact one domain without having auxiliary and peripheral impacts on the other domains.

There was a question leading up to this meeting about the life-after-service studies that have been conducted since 2010. That set of surveys covered veterans who were released since 1998. Those are the veterans we had records for. That was the set of the population for whom we understood their well-being or were able to measure their well-being in those seven domains.

Going forward, starting in 2022, thanks to the census question that identified veterans in 2021, we've been able to expand that survey representation to cover the full veteran population. Once we have those results, which we're expecting by the fall of this year, we should be able to report on the well-being of veterans across the seven domains, including in their employment. That's for the whole veteran population across Canada, not just those recently released.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

We increased the education and training benefit program from $40,000 for six years of service to $80,000. Did you find that many of our vets took advantage of that program after it was introduced? Did it give them an opportunity to prepare for civilian life and a new career?

[Jane Hicks]

The uptake has been pretty good. This past year there were just over 2,200 veterans who took advantage of the education and training benefit. There were roughly 50% of those who took advantage of the formal courses, and then about 50% who took advantage of shorter courses.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

With regard to the annual retirement numbers you talked about, 8,500, about 4,500 are actually seeking second careers. That's fairly impressive.

I'm assuming that the 4,000 who are not seeking second careers are probably those who have gone through an entire military career and have retired after 25 years of service or 30 years of service. Would that be correct?

[Lieutenant-Colonel, Retired) Chris Hutt (CD, Director, Transition and Program Support, Service Delivery Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Yes. It's an interesting number, and we don't have the exact demographic breakdown because it would be variable. You're looking at a combination of people who have medical conditions that preclude them from going into the workforce and some who are truly retired, as you mentioned. Then there are a number of them who are reservists and who are already integrated into the civilian labour market, because they are part-time soldiers and they all have civilian jobs already.