Veterans Affairs Committee on Jan. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much.

I now give the floor for six minutes to the committee's second vice-chair, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, colleagues. On this January 30, I welcome you back to parliamentary proceedings.

I thank our guests for joining us.

Mr. Harris, first of all, I want to congratulate you; then we'll see.

[Some Hon. Member]

Ha, ha!

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

On a more serious note, I would like to point out that the figures comparing the situation of English speakers to that of French speakers have just been released. I am still sorry about the 90‑day delay. If it weren't for the delay, we wouldn't have to complain about the government when things are not good and congratulate it when it's not on the right track. The current numbers show a much smaller difference than it used to be, both for the first applications and for the others. So, I thank you for meeting our expectations and requests on that.

Secondly, we certainly can't be against such a strategy, even if it is a little difficult for me to understand the essence of it. I will have questions about it. My main fear, as you may guess, is that it will encroach on provincial jurisdictions. Employment is managed by the provinces.

Concretely, what mechanisms do you plan to put in place to facilitate the transition from military life to employment in another form?

[Steven Harris]

I can start answering, and my colleagues will certainly add things.

Concretely, the process is about improving the skills of Canadian Forces members when they leave the service, so that they are better equipped to take on other positions and respond to the workforce situation. Sometimes, it's about their interview skills, as they haven't had an interview in 20 years. Sometimes it's related to education: they need training or certification, for example, to improve their chances in the job market. These are things we can work on with veterans individually to improve their chances in the job market.

We can also work with employers to make sure they are aware of the skills that veterans can bring to the table, the skills they have learned, and the training they have completed as part of their service.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

What you are telling me is quite noble. So much the better if progress has been made there. However, aren't these things that already exist at Veterans Affairs Canada?

[Steven Harris]

That's part of what we are doing right now. We're working on the strategy right now. We are listening to the witnesses who are appearing before the committee, the employers and the veterans. We are developing the strategy. I can't predict all the concrete things that will be in it because we are in consultations right now.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I will now focus on another aspect. I really enjoyed hearing my colleague talk about this earlier.

We know that very few veterans become employees of Veterans Affairs Canada after their service. That is something that veterans lament. They would love to be able to talk to people in the department who have been through what they are going through. It would make them feel heard and understood.

I understand that it is not easy to prepare someone for a job with Veterans Affairs Canada, but do you have any goals for that? Do you believe in that principle?

[Steven Harris]

Yes, we absolutely believe in hiring veterans, not just at Veterans Affairs Canada, but across all federal departments, so that their skills can help us achieve our goals.

We don't have a specific target for hiring veterans, but we always make recruitment efforts to ensure they can join us or other departments where their experience can be useful.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I always like it when concrete answers are provided. I'm not saying that in connection with your answers.

You want to implement a strategy. Have you clearly established goals? Will it be quantifiable? What will it take to determine if this strategy was a success?

[Steven Harris]

Once again, we are not at the final strategy. We are still in the strategy development stage. We will be gathering all of the information and feedback that we have received. I can ask Ms. Hicks to tell you a bit about what we have already established.

[LCol (Ret'd) Chris Hutt]

As Steven just alluded to, we are in the midst of formulating the strategies. It's in the very early stages. We are really analyzing the problem. As for things that we do know, we have to do things to improve the public service hiring mechanisms, the processes, with the outcome really being more veterans in the public service. We also know that we need to create better linkages between veterans and private sector employers. We also know that we have to better align the supports, both within the government and external of the government, that support veterans as they make that transition.

What exactly all that consists of is yet to be determined. The good news is that it's not a creation problem. It's a problem of aligning the goodwill and action that is largely out there already so it creates a coherent picture and a coherent strategy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

To end this first round of questions, I would like to invite our colleague MP Rachel Blaney for six minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, all, for being here today.

My first question is around the fact that there has been a clearly identified employment challenge for veterans from these particular groups: younger veterans who have less service, and female veterans—partially because they leave before having 20 years of service, which means they have less access to their pensions, and also recognizing that women are more than twice as likely to have part-time jobs—and medically released veterans.

This is very concerning. In 2013 an income study showed that medically released and female regular force veterans experience larger reductions in income, 10 times the average, after release. That is staggering when we think of those numbers. Obviously, there are some significant challenges there that have not been addressed in a meaningful way.

In terms of the public consultation, was there a particular strategy of outreach to those particular groups so that, as this strategy is put together, there is a plan that actually looks at the people who are not getting the best support to make sure that in the future they do?

[LCol (Ret'd) Chris Hutt]

It's a great question.

There are a couple of things that we have done through the consultation. First, we have used a public forum that we have called “Let's Talk Veterans”, which had very significant uptake. We had over 1,000 responses from across the veteran community—so, it's statistically relevant—that identified this. The other opportunity we had was the census results, which, for the first time, had a veteran indicator. That is giving us access to demographic data that can identify some of those areas to which we need to pay attention.

As for what the solutions are, we don't have those yet. We are still in the analysis phase of identifying those pieces, but we now have the information that can allow us to start identifying what we need to do to create the solutions to address those issues.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay.

I hear what you are saying, but what I am really asking is whether there was a specific part of this strategy that reached out to those particular groups. I hear there were 1,000 responses, and I'm happy to hear about the veteran indicator and the statistics process. However, was there a particular outreach to those marginalized groups? How are they going to see the system reflect their specific needs?

Was there anything that was targeted to those groups so that their voices were amplified? Their voices are obviously being silenced.

[Jane Hicks]

If I may, the consultation is still under way. We're still doing the analysis. As we identify additional information from the census survey and from the consultation, then we can do some more focused consultation. However, at this stage, we have not focused specifically on individual groups.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Once you do focus on those particular groups, will you update this committee so that we can see the work that is being done?

I see some nodding of heads, so I am going to take that as a yes.

[LCol (Ret'd) Chris Hutt]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

[LCol (Ret'd) Chris Hutt]

I would also add that the intent with the strategy is that it's going to have an integral performance measurement and follow-up mechanism so that we can do continuous improvement. As we develop this and do the performance metrics to watch those populations you mentioned, the intent would be to introduce measures as part of the strategy to specifically address those issues.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Just to clarify my understanding, does that mean there will be a targeted approach in identifying those marginalized groups and watching them specifically and seeing what outcomes can be measured? Would we as a committee be able to observe those outcomes through the years? Okay.

I don't know what the 17 questions were in the online consultation. I believe there were 17 questions. Can the committee have access to those questions? I have another round of nods, so I'm going to take that as a yes. That's fantastic.

One thing that I am curious about is how the education and training benefit is going to fit in with VAC's national employment strategy. Is there any talk about how those two things will work together?

[Jane Hicks]

It is one tool in the tool box. There are a variety of supports and services, and depending on where veterans are in the transition process and what their needs are, that tool is there for them.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm curious about trends in entrepreneurship. Are there any particular pathways that help with veterans who want to be entrepreneurs? For me, the riding that I represent is more rural, and that is a huge need in our area. I'm wondering, because I do understand that the take-up on the education and training benefit is fairly low. Within that context, what supports are there to help in these ways for veteran entrepreneurs? Would the department consider tweaking and changing it so that we could see more wins here?

If the uptake is low, that tells me something is not working. Are there any changes within those two venues to change that?

[Jane Hicks]

I'll talk about the education and training benefit and then turn it over to Chris to talk about entrepreneurship specifically.

We're monitoring that benefit closely. Recently we've actually sent a notice to all post-secondary education institutions across the country to increase awareness of the training benefit, and we'll continue to do so. We expect that it will continue to grow. It is a fairly new program, implemented in 2018, and we are seeing growth there.

I'll turn it to over to Chris.