Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 6th, 2023

[Colleen Arnold]

Actually, interestingly enough, Simon, in his new portfolio, is deploying a technology that will allow us to do better tracking. Unfortunately, technology was part of the reason we don't have it. It is a self-declaration, but I think.... Information from our cash services division is easier to get because they carry an arm. We can easily understand whether or not they've had a permit to carry a firearm before when they declare that they're a veteran.

On our side of the business we don't have that, but with our new technology, we'll be able to do a better job at it.

[Michael Sangster]

For me to answer that question it's tricky, because every province is different, and I get lots of apples and oranges. Everybody studies it differently and gathers it differently, or doesn't gather it, or gathers it in ways that are ineffective. Ontario has just changed the way they're doing it, which is going to be much more effective for us.

What I can tell you is that in terms of our learners, we tend to have a higher graduation rate. We tend to have a higher employment rate and a higher rate of working in the fields that we train them for. I think that's a natural thing, with the size and length of our programs and the hands-on learning that we do.

That being said, we're in the process of looking to do a national study to come up with some of those numbers. COVID-19 also stopped some of that work that allowed us to capture some of that information.

Further to my earlier comments, I welcome the opportunity to talk about that with you and to look at some ways we could capture some of the data you're looking for, because we're going to be doing it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

We have two last interventions.

I'll start with Mrs. Cathay Wagantall for five minutes, please.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I really appreciate the conversations taking place today. They're very helpful.

I just want to say that my NDP colleague steals my questions all the time. We think similarly, shall we say.

I really do have a concern about the fact that what I'm hearing today—and there's no judgment here at all—is that we don't know how many veterans are being employed, where they are and what they're learning. We have a national strategy here for veterans' employment after service. It seems that we're trying to catch up with the title, quite honestly.

I don't know if you are aware, but as of September 1, 2021, there were 171 VAC employees who identified as Canadian Armed Forces, as being part of the armed forces. That is out of 3,455 full-time equivalents. That's only 4.9% or 5% of their group of employees.

According to the Public Service Commission, which is responsible for administering hiring priorities for the public service, 330 appointments out of the 64,796 hires made in 2021 for the entire public service were veterans. That's 0.5%.

When we talk about making sure our veterans have good jobs coming out of the service, it appears to me that we really don't even know what we're working with here, so I appreciate your saying that you're prepared to do the work to find out so that we can meet the intent of this new national strategy.

My question would be on how committed you are to actually doing this work. I have to say that I'm not impressed with VAC. They don't know the answers to these questions. We're just starting to look at finding out where our veterans are in regard to being employed. It seems counterintuitive to me, but regardless....

I also have a question about wages. Simon, can you tell me what the starting wage is for a particular area of service?

Sorry; it's for whoever....

[Jean-Luc Meunier]

I'll start, since we're easier.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

[Jean-Luc Meunier]

Canada is a wide country, with 10 territories and provinces. Every province is managing the wages. Security is a provincial jurisdiction. At the end of the day, we need to go by the regulation of the province.

We are unionized in every province of this country. I would say that in Alberta, to summarize it, it's not that simple. The wages, by default, are managed by the CBA, the collective bargaining agreement, that we have with our guards. Everybody is treated the same way. It's a fair playing field for everybody, because we are unionized. Not everybody is like us, but we are unionized in most of our jurisdictions.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay, so starting wages—

[Jean-Luc Meunier]

They're the same for everybody.

[Colleen Arnold]

It depends on the province.

[Jean-Luc Meunier]

Yes.

[Colleen Arnold]

It is very different by province and the cost of living there—

[Jean-Luc Meunier]

In Ontario, as an example, if we lose a contract, all the jobs are protected. We cannot fire anybody. If we take over a contract from somebody, we need to maintain everybody in place with the salary they have. There are regulations already in place to protect a lot of our workers today.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay. Very good.

I have a minute to go here.

[Michael Sangster]

Could I add one comment?

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes. Go ahead, please, Mr. Sangster.

[Michael Sangster]

While we don't have the path yet, we are very committed to trying to find some of that data. I think it is important as we look at our veterans who have served and their families. I'll tell you what we are committed to: Each and every one of our colleges across Canada is committed to training people for the jobs that are actually needed today.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

In terms of the breadth of your training available, was the training for care workers during COVID something that you had done before? Was that a brand new program? How did you get the accreditation in place that fast? I've been involved in some of that, and it's strenuous.

[Michael Sangster]

Our personal support worker program, as it's called in Ontario—it seems to be taught under different names in almost every province in the country—has been around for quite a long time. It has been accredited by the provincial regulators that we operate under in every province.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Can I ask you one more very brief question? You mentioned working with other colleges. Are these colleges within your umbrella, or are we talking about community colleges in other areas or other programs through other institutions?

[Michael Sangster]

Many of our career colleges, our regulated career colleges, work closely with the community colleges and the universities nearby. We like that partnership. We believe we have a role to play and they have a role to play.

To give you an example of some of those programs, we're getting asked right now for 75,000 truck drivers, which some of our colleges also train. That's one of the needs out there. That's a very well-paid career in this country. It's upwards of $100,000 for some of those people. Coming out of the military, it's a great role for someone.

I'll give you a very tangible example. We have the member for Newfoundland and Labrador here today. We have a great partnership there. The career colleges, the community colleges and the universities all work together very well. We'd like to encourage more of that. That's why we're proposing today to talk about our commitment to this table, this permanent structure, where we can talk about taking care of veterans.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much.

Now I'd like to invite Mrs. Rechie Valdez to take the floor for five minutes or less, please.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for joining us today, especially those who have served.

Through you, Mr. Chair, my question is for Garda.

You cited 15% in your opening. We were provided with a document from the Corps of Commissionaires that says 15% is a myth. I wanted to know if you could provide clarity on the 15% number and where it came from.

[Jean-Luc Meunier]

It came from the minutes of the senatorial committee that was hosted in I think 2014 or 2016. We took that from the Senate committee that was hosted a few years ago. There's no public information on this unless there's a committee like this one that creates references for us to be able to do the math.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I'll direct my questions to Mr. Sangster.

I appreciate the work of career colleges across Canada. I was actually curious to know, as I was listening to your testimony, whether you could share with us what the veteran experience is like when they study on campus.