Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 9th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 36 of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Monday, October 3, 2022, the committee is resuming its study on the national strategy for veterans employment after service.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules.

Wait until I recognize you by name before speaking.

If you are on the video conference, please click the microphone icon to unmute yourself and speak. For the interpretation, you have the choice of language at the bottom of your screen. I believe the clerk has informed our witnesses of what to do to switch from English to French.

I would remind you that all comments must be addressed to the chair.

I would inform you that per our routine motion on this subject, the sound tests have been done. We hope that everything will be working as it should at this meeting.

I will now welcome our witnesses.

We have, from the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada, Mr. Mike Mueller, president and chief executive officer, by video conference. From Helmets to Hardhats, we have Paul Bury, director, transition services, and Normand Trépanier, deputy director.

Mr. Mueller, you'll have the floor for five minutes, but please look at me, because I'm going to tell you when you have one minute left and when your time is over. Please respect that.

After that, we'll have a series of questions from members of the committee.

Mr. Mueller, the floor is yours for five minutes or less. Please turn on your mike and go ahead.

[Mike Mueller, President and Chief Executive Officer, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada]

Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll keep an eye out for the cue cards.

I apologize to the committee that I couldn't be there in person.

Good evening, everyone. It's a real pleasure to be here on behalf of the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Mr. Mueller.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

I'm sorry. The interpreter is telling me that there seems to be background noise and the sound quality is not sufficient to enable him to interpret what the witness is saying.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Mr. Mueller. We have to check the sound because we're having problems with the interpretation.

What we'll do is start with the witnesses in the room. After that, we'll go back to you.

That reminds me to say hello to our two colleagues who are also with us in the room, Kristina Michaud and Francis Drouin.

With that said, which witness will be speaking first?

Is Mr. Paul Bury or Mr. Normand Trépanier taking the floor?

Mr. Bury, you have the floor for five minutes or less. Please go ahead.

[Major-General, Retired) Paul Bury (Director, Transition Services, Helmets to Hardhats]

Good evening, Mr. Chair.

As introduced, I'm Paul Bury, a director with Helmets to Hardhats Canada. I'm joined this evening by my co-worker, Mr. Normand Trépanier.

I'd like to thank you and the members of this committee for the opportunity to talk with you this evening about the Helmets to Hardhats program and the benefits it offers to Canadian Armed Forces veterans, serving reservists, military spouses, dependents, members of the Canadian cadet organizations aged 16 to 19, and now resettled Afghan interpreters who worked with the Canadian Armed Forces when it was deployed to Afghanistan.

Helmets to Hardhats is a national non-profit organization funded by the unionized construction industry and staffed by both military veterans and industry representatives. Helmets to Hardhats also receives periodic federal or provincial government funding for specific veteran employment initiatives. Specifically, Helmets to Hardhats has received funding through the veteran and family well-being fund that has allowed us to expand our presence in Atlantic Canada and create a specific initiative for women and LGBTQ2+ veterans. We are extremely grateful for this funding and we look forward to further opportunities through Veterans Affairs Canada.

Affiliated with the 14 Canadian building trades unions representing over 60 occupations, H2H focuses on assisting armed forces veterans, serving reservists and our other select clients in finding rewarding civilian career opportunities in the building and construction industries across Canada. Networked across the country, H2H has deep connections with construction trade union locals and their affiliated contractors. H2H connects registered participants with apprenticeship and employment opportunities in Canada's construction industries. The apprenticeship programs provide the skills training needed to achieve journeyman and Red Seal qualifications across various occupations.

H2H provides professional and personalized services to registered participants by guiding registered members as they transition to a new career and by assisting employers in their search for potential employees. Since its inception in 2012, Helmets to Hardhats has referred over 2,300 service members to well-paying second careers in the skilled trades. We are in receipt of many testimonials that testify to a significant and positive effect on those veterans, their families and the community.

H2H is uniquely positioned within Canada to help in the transition of Canadian Armed Forces veterans and serving reservists to these careers in the skilled trades. We work closely with transitioning personnel to help reduce the stress of their transition by offering job information, apprenticeship placement referrals and employment contacts across Canada. Additionally, we work closely with local unions to ensure that women, indigenous and racialized veterans are prioritized as part of this group and receive the benefits and services that H2H offers.

The Canadian construction industry has an aging workforce, and in the coming decade it will lose a significant percentage of its skilled workers to retirement. To fill the vacancies left by the retiring baby boomers and meet the demands of the anticipated growth, the industry needs to recruit and train new workers. Canada's veterans and serving reservists are seen as highly skilled and desirable for occupations in the trades. H2H is able to open avenues to employment for Canada's veterans and offer solutions to Canadian contractors and construction employers by helping to fill the vacancies in the trades.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to hand the floor to my colleague, Mr. Trépanier, for a couple of minutes for his comments.

Thank you.

[Normand Trépanier, Deputy Director, Helmets to Hardhats]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank you for inviting us and allowing us to speak on behalf of our organization, Helmets to Hardhats.

Many people do not realize that when they decide to join the Canadian Armed Forces, they are putting their civilian lives on hold. Their time and lives are dedicated to protecting their country and the people who live there. There is an urban legend that says that all military personnel leave the CAF with a pension for life, which is not exactly true. To be eligible to receive a pension, CAF members must have put in at least 25 years of loyal and dedicated service. However, if an injury occurs and that injury is attributable to military service, a pension for life may be awarded for medical reasons.

A veteran who serves for less than 25 years is not eligible to receive a pension. However, when they are discharged from the CAF, veterans will be given their contribution to the Canada Pension Plan less uncollected taxes. After serving for 5, 10, or 20 years, all of a sudden they are responsible for making decisions about their new life. It may seem like a minor thing for those who leave a great career, but the fact remains that starting over can be very stressful and, for some, nightmarish. Helmets to Hardhats was created to prevent our veterans from going through this stress.

A veteran who decides to start a second career in the construction industry can count on the expertise and experience of the people at Helmets to Hardhats. Twice a year, in the spring and fall, we are invited to the second-career seminar to talk about the program and to tell seminar participants about the services we offer. We invite them to register.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Trépanier, time does fly by. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you will be able to continue the discussion when you answer questions, so you will be able to refer to your speech.

Leaving H2H, let's now go back to Mr. Mueller.

We'll do a quick sound test.

I'd like you to say a few words in order to make sure the sound is working.

[Mike Mueller]

I apologize for that, Mr. Chair. I hope the sound is coming through decently, now. I'm not sure what was going on. There was a fan in the room. That might have been it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

That's okay.

I'll put the clock on. You have five minutes. Please go ahead, Mr. Mueller.

Thank you.

[Mike Mueller]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, I apologize for not being able to be there in person. It's so good to see people in person again.

It's my real pleasure to be here on behalf of the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada.

I appreciate your time and the committee's interest in this important topic. As you may know, our industry employs a significant number of veterans from the Canadian Armed Forces. It makes me especially proud, personally, when I visit member companies, to see the number of veterans employed in the industry, so any actions you can take to help support this are greatly appreciated.

By way of background, our members represent over 90% of aerospace activity in Canada, spanning the civil, defence and space sectors. In 2021, Canada's aerospace industry contributed over $24 billion in GDP and close to 200,000 jobs to the Canadian economy. These are highly skilled, well-paying jobs in every region of the country. The industry is an important sector in regions across Canada, driving innovation, creating jobs and promoting economic growth.

However, we're facing a significant challenge in getting the right talent to meet the demands of a rapidly evolving market and rapidly changing technological advancements. Our industry relies heavily on skilled labour, from engineers and technicians to machinists and assemblers. There is a growing gap between the number of jobs available and the number of qualified workers to fill them. I'm sure you're hearing this from a lot of industries. This is due to a combination of factors, including the retirement of experienced workers, the increasing demand for skilled labour across the board and the need for further workforce development and training programs.

On the training side, we recently had some good news. As part of the recent Canadian Aerospace Summit, the government announced an investment of $39 million under the sectoral workforce solutions program for the Canadian Council for Aviation and Aerospace, which specializes in such training. Over 900 new and current aerospace workers across Canada will benefit. We're pleased to be working closely with them on this important initiative and very appreciative of that investment. It is meeting both the sustainability imperative and, simultaneously, Industry 4.0 requirements for new skills and training.

In its 2021 study of Canada's aerospace industry, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology called out the need for the federal government to collaborate with provinces and territories to fund post-secondary training across all aerospace sectors. The industry is competing with other countries to attract the best talent, and we need to ensure employers can attract the workers they need. Getting talent back, or finding new sources, is both an opportunity and a challenge for the industry. Estimates say we require an additional 58,000 workers in key skilled roles by 2028. We have a real opportunity, now and moving forward, to get things right, and I'm very pleased to see this committee prioritizing a study on a national strategy for veterans employment after service.

Utilizing the talent we have—talent that is ready to be put to work—is critically important. Our industry welcomes the skills, knowledge and experience of veterans; it's a natural fit. Many of our member companies employ veterans, as I said at the outset. At our national association, we are fortunate to have two extremely accomplished military veterans among our ranks. Both are former brigadier generals. They are now providing invaluable expertise to our members through their work with our association and leadership on our technical committees. The breadth of knowledge veterans provide is something that only comes from the unique experiences they bring.

In conclusion, labour market challenges in the aerospace industry are significant, but they are not insurmountable. Ensuring we're utilizing the talent and experience of our veterans is something we fully support. I think we all share the goal of ensuring this important industry continues to thrive and provide exciting, well-paying careers for generations to come, while benefiting from the experience, talent and knowledge of our country's veterans.

Again, thank you for your interest. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Mr. Mike Mueller, for your remarks.

Now let's go to the rounds of questions.

First we have Mr. Fraser Tolmie. You have six minutes or less.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Mueller, for your presentation.

Mr. Bury and Mr. Trépanier, thank you for joining us today.

It's the aim of this committee to ensure that veterans who have served our nation and put their lives on the line and who are looking for a second career are able to find meaningful work. I believe your presentations have represented that.

One of the things we are trying to understand as a committee before we go forward on a strategy is where that logjam is. There seems to be, as you were talking about, Mr. Bury, an availability to employ our vets after they've been serving, and obviously there's a need a need in the building industry, if I'm not mistaken.

Could you tell me where you see the challenge in getting veterans employed? Is it a skills issue? Is it an awareness issue? Is it just an availability issue?

[MGen (Ret'd) Paul Bury]

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That's a great question.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

That's why I asked it.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[MGen (Ret'd) Paul Bury]

I'd be happy to comment on that.

I think the answer to all the points you address in your question—skills, awareness—is yes. There are issues in that. While it's recognized that a lot of veterans come with significant leadership, maturity, discipline and the ability to get the job done, they may not have the specific skill required for the civilian job that they're going to do.

I'll use this example. If you have an individual who's an electrician on a navy ship and is qualification level 5 qualified—QL5 qualified—they can test for their Red Seal, but that qualification, that experience, does not equate to a residential electrician's experience. There will be a skills gap there.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay. Just for clarity, a Red Seal is for a journeyman electrician who has written their exam, like a plumber—

[MGen (Ret'd) Paul Bury]

That's right.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Yes. I want that put in the record for other people to know. I'm aware of that, but I think that has to be put in. If we use acronyms, not everybody understands the acronyms.

The challenge is that they don't have that skill, but that's where.... If someone applies to you and says they want a job but they don't have that skill, are they rejected?

[MGen (Ret'd) Paul Bury]

No. In fact, the Canadian Building Trades Unions, the employers and the contractors will really work with the individual to ensure they become employable—that they get that experiential piece, that they understand what the gap is and they can make it up.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

If you can follow my line of questioning here, when someone applies for work, what's the rejection level for them to not be able to be employed with you? You're talking about skills that are not transferable. That's what we need to focus on. We need to focus on skills that are not transferable, that are not recognized.

A pilot flies a cargo airplane or a fighter jet in the military. They can transfer their skills through training, through Air Canada, WestJet, Sunwing or whatever. They're able to do that. The challenge we have is that some of these vets don't have that transferable skill. I want to hear your thoughts on that.

[MGen (Ret'd) Paul Bury]

Mr. Chair, I would say that the business leaders and the unions will seek out veterans for the soft skills—the leadership, the discipline—that they bring. The trade-specific skills can be taught. They can get that experience and move forward. What we find in the testimony and information we get back from the employers is that they seek out these individuals because of those skills. They can teach trade-specific skills, but they want the veterans for all the other assets they bring to the work site.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Mueller, is it something similar that you see from your perspective with the airframe techs and safety systems?

There's a lot of expertise that comes out of the skill sets of those who have served as ground crew, maintenance and even engineers. Is there a challenge for people who have skills that are not recognized to get into the aviation industry?