Evidence of meeting #46 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was things.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Okay. You said, “$144 million over five years”, so in 2022 to 2023...?
April 20th, 2023 / 6:55 p.m.
Director, Advocacy, National Association of Federal Retirees
That would perhaps be a question best put to National Defence.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
That's interesting. Okay.
You also mentioned that there were concerns around budgeting in 2023. Veterans are hearing that VAC had unexpected cuts to some of its budget requests, including for making temporary jobs permanent. I'm assuming from that, then, that VAC did request funding to transition to permanent workers, which is something this committee had strongly encouraged it to do, but then it was denied—that did not come to fruition in the 2023 budget. Is that correct?
6:55 p.m.
Director, Advocacy, National Association of Federal Retirees
That is my understanding. It would need confirmation from Veterans Affairs Canada.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thank you.
You talked about how what we ask Veterans Affairs to adjudicate is “directly linked with what happens during service”. I can't affirm that more. It's so true that everything that a veteran is experiencing after service is related to their service, and we need to know those parameters.
We heard from the AG report that VAC has failed significantly on measuring any outcomes of the programs it has, so it is a big concern to us that VAC can go and change things, but if it can't measure what it has done and whether or not that has made an impact, that presents a serious problem with trying to move forward, even for VAC itself in determining things.
I appreciate what you're all saying with regard to the success of the study being defined by what we and our colleagues decide to do with the evidence being brought by you. As a committee, we have been doing report after report after report with major recommendations to the government, so I would say it has to go further than here. It needs to be determined which of those recommendations, when they do say they're going to implement them, actually get done. That's something I've tried to encourage our committee to look at—responding to what has been asked already to see if things are improving. That is something that your organizations could be doing as well—looking at those recommendations, looking at which ones the government said they would work on, and then doing research to see if those things have been done.
Thank you.
7 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
I'm sorry, Mrs. Wagantall, but time is over.
Mr. Samson, you now have the floor for six minutes.
7 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for your presentations to get us started and set the table, if you want.
Dr. Breeck, I'd like to thank you for your service as well, for your continued work in supporting our men and women who serve, and for your focus on this study, which is so crucial. It's historic, as we said, because it's the first major study on women's challenges in the military. It's a great opportunity, as well, to do things right, and we should take that upon us. We're very happy as well to be part of this.
I'll start off with Dr. Eichler from Mount Saint Vincent. Of course, you're working in the province of Nova Scotia, as I am, and it's a pleasure to see you again. Thank you for the work you're doing.
I want to touch on something you said in your presentation, and maybe you can expand on it, because I feel it might be a key area we should focus on. You're saying there are more and more groups, people and researchers, doing research on women now, but there seems to be a lack of coordination and collaboration. Can you expand on that, to see if we can dissect a little more information as to how we could do this better?
7 p.m.
Canada Research Chair in Social Innovation and Community Engagement, Mount Saint Vincent University, As an Individual
I'd be happy to elaborate on that.
In Canada the approach we have taken to filling the existing gaps in knowledge on women veterans and military women more broadly has been mostly reactive—responding to problems that arise or media reports that arise—but there hasn't really been that paradigm shift that I think needs to happen whereby we see a whole-of-government approach that is proactive and that looks at coordinating between research happening at DND/CAF and research happening at VAC and really creating a pan-Canadian research strategy.
Some of the things that would really help us to move forward on this would be to have a full-time dedicated position on women's research at DND/CAF and a full-time dedicated position on women veteran research at VAC, and then to think about how to collaborate across those lines. For example, there is the DND/VAC steering committee that looks a bit at coordination across departments, but it would be really helpful to have a focus there on the women's health issue and also to have input from experts and from women veterans.
7 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
I appreciate that answer. That gives us a good area, I believe, to move forward.
In your research, have you been able to see that type of coordination in other countries? Can you share some of what is happening in other countries and how maybe we can look at those best practices?
7 p.m.
Canada Research Chair in Social Innovation and Community Engagement, Mount Saint Vincent University, As an Individual
The country that really stands out as having the most coordinated and proactive approach is the United States. They've been at this the longest. They have actively addressed women veterans' issues in policy and research since about 1983, when they set up an advisory committee of women veterans working with Veterans Affairs. Of course, since 1951 they've also had the DACOWITS, which is the defense advisory committee on women in the services.
The approach is a very different one, in which government actively leads those efforts. I think that's one of the reasons we see such a difference in research on women veterans between Canada and the U.S., because in the U.S. it's Veterans Affairs and the veterans health administration that actually leads a lot of the research that's happening, coordinates it and sums it up.
That's very different from in Canada, where individuals apply for funding and where a lot of research is contracted out. That's the way we do things in Canada, but it is not a very effective way of filling the gaps that exist.
7 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you very much for that information.
In the Canadian Armed Forces we're focused on trying to increase women's participation to about 25%. We know we're much lower than that. Would you share why you think that's happening, or is it a lack of recruitment? I'll ask that to all three of you.
Maybe we'll start with asking Dr. Breeck to share why she feels we haven't achieved our 25% yet. What can we do to recruit more women in the military?
Be very quick, because you have to share among the three of you, and I have a minute left.
7:05 p.m.
Major (Retired), Co-chair, The Women Veterans Research and Engagement Network
It's a nice, easy question, which if I could solve....
I think these are really complex, multifactorial issues. There are many different reasons. There isn't any one thing to fix it all.
I'll focus on commemoration and how much Canadians know about their military, how much Canadians know about women veterans. When you don't know you have a military and you don't know what your military does, I think that's already a starting point. Perhaps you haven't seen women veterans. You need to see it to believe it. You need to see it to be it.
When we're not included already from step one in some of the programs, what girl is growing up saying she's going to join the military? This is already a part of it.
As a female veteran, I know all of us share these stories. Even on Veterans Day, when you go to Tim Hortons to get your free coffee because you're a veteran, the very lovely person will still look at you and ask if you're picking that up for your husband, even though you're wearing the medals. On Remembrance Day, even when you're sitting there proud with your medals, you will still have Canadians coming up to you saying, “Oh, did your husband die, or are those your husband's?”
It's a very common phenomenon. We don't know who we are. We're invisible, still, to the average Canadian.
I'll start it there—they don't know we exist.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
My time ran out, but I appreciate that answer, because that's one piece. Maybe the others will get an opportunity throughout the meeting to share some information on that.
Thank you.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Exactly. Thank you so much, Mr. Samson.
I will now give the floor to the second committee vice-chair.
Mr. Desilets, you have six minutes.
7:05 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank the witnesses for being here with us.
I would also like to say hello to my colleagues.
Over the last three meetings, we have spoken about the importance of data collection. Indeed, many witnesses have lamented the lack of data. And yet, such data would allow us to understand the impact of military life on the health and well-being of women in particular.
Doctor Eichler, you quite probably agree with the importance of research and data collection, because this is your field of study.
Do you believe that the government is doing enough in this field?
7:05 p.m.
Canada Research Chair in Social Innovation and Community Engagement, Mount Saint Vincent University, As an Individual
That is a very difficult question for me to answer, because there is the law on transparency around the data. I would say the lack of transparency has been a major obstacle to research developing more richly in this field of military women and women veterans. These are departments, especially the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defence, that are not very open and transparent externally. Veterans Affairs Canada publishes some things. We know what they're working on, and they have certainly improved over the last couple of years in terms of posting some of their reports online and sharing some of the research they do, but I think a lot more could be done to really be transparent about the research that's happening, the data that is being collected. A lot more could be done in terms of really breaking down the data by sex, gender and other intersectional factors.
The mandate is there to do the sex- and gender-based analysis plus and to have more open government. However, I don't think we're there yet. I think if you could stress the need for that, that would be really crucial to further the research.
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
What do you think the problem stems from?
Is it the political will of government to avoid transparency and prevent the sharing of data? Is there a problem somewhere that escapes me?
7:10 p.m.
Canada Research Chair in Social Innovation and Community Engagement, Mount Saint Vincent University, As an Individual
A large part of it is the lack of political will. Historically there haven't been a lot of researchers who have been asking for this data, so now we are watching and we are certainly demanding more transparency around it.
I also think there's a lack of coordination. Even, for example, when I speak with researchers within the Department of National Defence, the Canadian Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Canada, they're not even necessarily coordinating among themselves, let alone coordinating with us externally.
It just hasn't been a priority area, but it's certainly doable. It needs to happen.
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Three weeks ago, we learned that Veterans Affairs Canada has set up a research team comprised of a dozen researchers to study the various aspects of women veterans' lives.
Are you in contact with this research team?
7:10 p.m.
Canada Research Chair in Social Innovation and Community Engagement, Mount Saint Vincent University, As an Individual
I think Karen could speak to that.
7:10 p.m.
Major (Retired), Co-chair, The Women Veterans Research and Engagement Network
I'm sorry, but can you repeat the question? About three weeks ago—
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
A few weeks ago, we learned that Veterans Affairs Canada has set up a team comprised of a dozen researchers who would focus on women and the difficulties that they may face, amongst other things. Are you in contact with this team?
7:10 p.m.
Major (Retired), Co-chair, The Women Veterans Research and Engagement Network
If I understood the question properly, it was specific to within VAC, if there was women's research. I'm not sure I'd be the best one. I'm not aware of it. I am aware that we had Nathan Svenson speak on March 30 and that he identified that there was no strategic women veterans research program presently at VAC.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Doctor Eichler has raised her hand. She may be able to answer.
Dr. Eichler, go ahead, please.