Veterans Affairs Committee on June 15th, 2023

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

I'm sorry. Thank you for sharing that with me. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

It's tough to stop those conversations....

I'd like to invite the MP from Mississauga—Streetsville, Mrs. Rechie Valdez, to take six minutes, please.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses who have joined us.

I just want to say that you were brave when you served, and I actually believe that you are braver now, even more so, to be able to share your testimony with all of us. Thank you very much for that.

Last Monday, the VAC department joined us. They mentioned that they've changed their policy for MST. They accept personal statements without the need to provide corroborating evidence. I want your opinion on that.

I'll start with you, Major Arkell.

[Carly Arkell]

I was very fortunate that I didn't apply for anything related to MST until after the policy had changed, although the initial incident leading to my PTSD wasn't related to MST. It was operational. That's a whole other thing. The fact that there was an MST component to it meant that it was actually reviewed and processed very quickly. It was the only application that has gone smoothly. I'm grateful for the changes they made, but I know that it was long and hard fought.... I'm grateful.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

Nadine Schultz-Nielsen, did you want to weigh in on that?

[Nadine Schultz-Nielsen]

I have never applied for my MST through Veterans Affairs. I am incredibly grateful that they are taking steps forward and trying to help us, but I can't speak to the experience personally because I haven't applied.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I will direct my questions to Lisa Nilsson, who is online.

There are various programs for the victims of MST, such as the sexual misconduct support and resource centre, the peer support program and talking to mental health professionals.

Could I get your input on these services? Have they have helped you at all? Have you observed any improvements over the years?

[Lisa Nilsson]

I had to self-refer to the OSI clinic. I wasn't offered any support. Very much like my fellow witness, I was diagnosed with adjustment disorder as well. That I couldn't handle change was essentially what that was, but I had been suffering from PTSD for over 20 years. It was never identified or treated appropriately.

Finally, after I self-referred and the OSI clinic spent almost two months asking for a referral for me, I got in. It still took almost nine months before I got see somebody. It took another four months, or maybe five, before I actually got my first appointment with a therapist. There was an informal peer group that did help me a bit, but to be perfectly honest, it was what happened to me, and after I reported, it was much better for me to not say anything and to just keep my mouth shut.

I hope that answers the question.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

It does. Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Cyr.

I understand you have a cat café. Can you tell the whole committee what you told me about your 15 cats?

[Lisa Cyr]

I bought this café to save myself, first of all. Following my diagnosis of post-traumatic stress disorder, I also started having fibromyalgia. This coffee shop gets me moving.

I have 15 cats, named after my friends who died by suicide or died in Afghanistan. Every morning, if I'm not feeling very well, I look at my cats and think of my friends to whom I've paid tribute. I tell myself they're gone, but I'm still here. It allows me to take another step forward. It allows me to move forward.

This café also allows me to have a place for veterans, a safe space, a lighthouse. For me and for veterans, it's a place to rest. When I'm not well, my cats sense it. They come to see me, and they're often the ones named after my close colleagues. The aim of this café is to show people that my colleagues didn't die in vain, and that the mental health of veterans and military personnel is fragile. It's also to say that they need to be cared for, and that they shouldn't end up committing suicide. It must not come to that. That's my battle every day.

Your giving me a voice is important. It's important to me, it's important for women and it's important to all the military and all the veterans. It's priceless. I hope that the studies you're doing in committee will help change things in the future and that we won't have to fight anymore.

You know, I turned 47. Every day, I fight. I fight physically. I fight mentally. These women fight, and so do others.

When I walk into my restaurant, I have priceless strength. I know my colleagues are there. I know they're with me. It keeps me going, keeps me from staying home, because I know there is darkness if I stay home. I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for this coffee shop.

Since April, we've been rescuing a veteran. We got a call that he was on the verge of suicide, on the side of the street. He's at my place now. Every morning, he gets up and comes with me to the restaurant. Two weeks after his arrival at my place, he wasn't the same man. The battle isn't won, but it's a source of pride to see that we've led him in the right direction. If we manage to save a veteran, that's one more battle we win.

That's what I'm trying to do. We're no better than anyone else, but so much the better if we can be a role model for veterans. That's what it takes. It also takes people like you to back us, to support us and to be behind us.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Cyr.

Thank you, Ms. Valdez.

I think it will do us all some good to take a five-minute health break to stretch our legs. I would ask you, however, to respect the five-minute time limit for the break.

We're going to have votes at around eight o'clock. We would like to be able to maximize the time that we have with you.

The meeting will suspend for five minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We are resuming the meeting.

For the next six minutes, I invite the member for Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, Mr. Luc Desilets, to speak.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, colleagues.

Good evening, dear guests. Thank you very much. On the one hand, I thank you for your service. On the other, I thank you for being here and agreeing to share such suffering with us. It's a little disturbing to hear you. It's shocking at times. I find you very courageous. I try to put myself in your shoes, and I don't know if I'd have the same courage.

My first question is for you, Ms. Cyr.

First, I must say that you were quite humble in presenting your organization. I've visited it two or three times, and it's an extraordinary organization, off the beaten track. It's not just a restaurant, but an anchor point for veterans in the Quebec City area. You offer a form of pet therapy. It's a fascinatingly calm place. So, my hat's off to you. We could use a lot of places like this elsewhere in Quebec and Canada.

You were in the Canadian Armed Forces for 12 years, but you were never sent on a mission. I imagine you would have liked to. How do you explain the fact that in 12 years, you were never sent on a mission? Do you attribute that to anything in particular?

[Lisa Cyr]

It's most likely because I was a woman, I was older than the average person and I wasn't the beautiful doll they would have liked. I've had physical injuries too. When you have them, you're worth nothing, and it's very difficult to get treatment. We're told it's all in our heads. We're given Tylenol, Advil, Motrin or Antiphlogistine, and told to deal with it.

For example, I was told, “You, Cyr, you are going to stay here, because you have experience in the unit, in your section. The new kid doesn't know anything, so he can't handle things.” So he's going on a mission. He'll get the medal. As for me, they told me I was going to stay behind, I was going to slog 12 or 13 hours a day, because it takes people to make up for the labour shortage, and I'd get nothing.

At the end of the day, when you get out of the forces, you feel a bit like an imposter as a veteran, because in people's minds, veterans are people who have been on missions. In the eyes of some members of the Canadian Armed Forces, if you haven't taken part in missions, you're not a veteran.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have to stop you here, because otherwise I know you're going to take up my full six minutes. However, what you're saying is fascinating.

Would you be able to estimate the percentage of women in the Canadian Armed Forces who, as you've experienced, are not sent on missions? This is not the exception, as I understand it.

[Lisa Cyr]

I would say that more than half of women are not sent on missions.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Really? Good grief!

You said something else that made a terrible impression on me earlier. You had a medical note from a civilian doctor, and the armed forces doctor you presented it to didn't acknowledge it or agree to implement it. Is this correct?

[Lisa Cyr]

Yes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I find this appalling. It's as if the Canadian Armed Forces were above the law. I don't know of a single organization, certainly in Quebec, that would refuse a medical note from a civilian doctor. I find that sad.

I have many other questions for you.

You've talked a lot about the harassment you experienced in the army. Obviously, you attribute this to the fact that you're a woman. Do men not experience this type of harassment at all?

[Lisa Cyr]

There are men who are harassed too.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Are there?

[Lisa Cyr]

Yes, and I've been psychologically harassed by women, too. The last one was a woman, who was probably the men's puppet. My unit sergeant-major said that he'd never spoken to me, even though he knew full well that I'd said to his face, “Get me out of here, because I'm not feeling well. My mental health is suffering. I'm going to strangle her.” He said, “Well! I could give you a posting in Montreal.” Come on! It wasn't a posting in Montreal I wanted; I just wanted to get out of that place. Yet he claimed that he'd never spoken to me, until I made an official complaint.

Even though I made an official complaint and won my case, this person received no sanction. This is unacceptable. When I asked what sanction this person had received, I was flatly told, “It's none of your business.” I was the one who had been harassed, but I had no right to know what sanction the person who had aggressed me had received. What I found out later was that she'd been promoted to chief warrant officer.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have another question. You discussed it with me, but I want you to tell my colleagues.

You've had and still have several illnesses that aren't recognized. Can you name them?

[Lisa Cyr]

Following post-traumatic stress disorder, there was fibromyalgia, which Veterans Affairs Canada still refuses to recognize.

I have bladder and bowel problems. As soon as I have a moment of stress, it affects my bladder, and I have diarrhea. I won't hide my ailments from you. I go to the bathroom, wipe myself and there's poo. It just comes out. There are other veterans who will tell you. They may be embarrassed to say it, but we're here to tell it like it is. My employees at the restaurant have gotten used to seeing my panties full of urine in the wash basket. At first, they'd exclaim and wonder what they were doing there. Now they're used to it. They know it's because I didn't get to the toilet in time. If you take a look at my restaurant, you'll see it's not very big. I experience stress when a lot of people come in. The stress gets to me, and then it gets away from me. Veterans Affairs won't acknowledge it. It started after I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. It's clearly written, too.

Fibromyalgia was recognized by a physiatrist, but Veterans Affairs won't recognize it. I've just, after four years, been accepted for housekeeping in our home. My application had not been accepted before. An occupational therapist at Veterans Affairs even told me that it was all in my head, that I should stop complaining and telling them my problems, that then it would be fine and I could do my housework without any problems.