Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 12th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 76 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, November 28, 2023, the committee is commencing its study of the subject matter of supplementary estimates (B), 2023-24.

As you know, the room is equipped with a high-quality audio system. However, when you are speaking, please keep your earpiece away from the microphone. This can cause static and damage the interpreters' hearing. Please be extremely careful.

Keep in mind that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

Since we have witnesses on the video conference, I would like to let the committee members know that the necessary connection tests were completed, pursuant to our routine motion.

Now I wish to welcome the witnesses.

We have the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, P.C., Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence. With her, we have, from the Department of Veterans Affairs, Mr. Paul Ledwell, deputy minister; Sara Lantz, assistant deputy minister, chief financial officer and corporate services; and, by video conference, Mr. Steven Harris, assistant deputy minister, service delivery branch.

You have five minutes for your opening remarks, Minister. After that, members will ask their questions.

Please go ahead.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Thank you to the committee members for the invitation to appear before the committee today to discuss supplementary estimates (B) for my department, Veterans Affairs Canada.

I appreciate and welcome these appearances concerning supplementary estimates, as they allow us to make sure Canada’s veterans are being served and supported as efficiently as possible.

As you know, more than 90% of the Veterans Affairs Canada, or VAC, budget represents payments to veterans, for supports and services that were hard-earned by those who served in the Canadian Armed Forces, or CAF, and the family members who sustained them at home.

Our government cares deeply about Canada’s veterans and their families, Mr. Chair, and continues to make investments that aim to maximize their overall well-being in post-service life.

Just last month, I announced that we made an investment of $164.4 million so that we can continue to improve the services that veterans and their families count on by retaining more than 600 Veterans Affairs employees for an additional two-year period.

To date, federal investments have supported the hiring of additional case managers and support staff to lower the caseload of frontline service delivery employees and to reduce the volume of disability applications currently in the queue.

This investment builds on the $156.7 million investment outlined in budget 2023, bringing the funding up to a total of $321.1 million over five years, plus $14.4 million ongoing to support services to veterans and members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP.

It is no secret, Mr. Chair, that the timely and efficient delivery of these services is the top priority for our veterans and an ongoing challenge that we are continually working to address. It’s why the estimates include $15 million to modernize information technology, or IT, infrastructure, digitalize paper files, and implement digital technologies to support faster processing times—all of which will make the delivery of services more efficient for our veterans.

The estimates also plan for a $6.9-million increase in the budget for the Veterans Review and Appeal Board to continue its efforts to address their backlog.

Our estimates also include $5 million for VAC’s campaign on mental health and remembrance. For the mental health campaign, funding will be used to promote and create awareness among the veteran community of services and supports available to them immediately. Through the remembrance campaign, we will honour the Canadians who served our country during times of war, military conflict and peace. The campaign will also play a pivotal role in engaging Canadians in acts of remembrance and recognition of past and present sacrifices.

As growing numbers of veterans continue to approach the department for support and services, we are seeing a significant increase in demand for the income replacement benefit and the rehabilitation services and vocational assistance program. The $3.6 million in the estimates will be used to help meet these needs among the veteran community.

Demand for legal counsel from the bureau of pension advocates has also risen in the past few years. This has led to a backlog and longer wait times for veterans to receive the support they need.

Overall, the investments in these estimates reflect the priorities identified by veterans themselves and will ensure that we are able to meet their needs. Specifically, the supplementary estimates (B) add a total of $42.2 million to the Veterans Affairs Canada budget. I can assure you that this additional funding represents an important and necessary investment in the health and well-being of our veterans and their families.

Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before the committee today.

My department officials and I look forward to answering your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you for your opening remarks, Minister.

I'd like to welcome our colleague MP Julie Dzerowicz, who will replace Carolyn Bennett.

Let's start the first round of questions. I invite MP Blake Richards to take his six minutes, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks, Minister.

The stories I hear from veterans who call or write to my office every single day are heartbreaking. I wanted to share with you a few of those that I've heard recently.

Retired sergeant Graham Kerr served four combat tours in Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq, and he has fought for years with VAC just to get coverage and treatment for his disabilities.

Retired lieutenant-commander Dr. Greg Passey says that his claims for support took 29 months to adjudicate while he battled cancer.

Retired master corporal Eric Lavergne was a victim of military sexual trauma and has struggled with PTSD and mental health for years. He told us last week that he has been asking for help, and that VAC continues to deny him the help that he's asking for.

Kent Gulliford says that both he and his wife are having incredible difficulties processing claims under the new insurance provider, and there seems to be no recourse available to even complain about the lack of service they've received.

Retired captain Robert Dimmer had 22 years of service, and he's been fighting with VAC for almost two years to receive help for hearing loss. He says he believes that VAC is just denying him until he dies, rather than helping him. Those are his words.

Minister, I want to ask if they sound to you like veterans who are satisfied with the services they receive. Do they sound like veterans who are physically and mentally well to you?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Richards.

We take the situations that veterans in your riding have told you about very seriously. We are always looking to improve the programs and services we provide to veterans. That is why I think it is so important for the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs to examine issues and conduct studies to hear from people who are dealing with situations that are often unacceptable.

As the Minister of Veterans Affairs, I will do my part to make sure that we are constantly improving our programs for veterans. As the minister in charge, I want to make sure that we are always able to deliver better services to our veterans. That is a top priority for me and my department.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

In order to improve the services that are available, the first thing you have to do is set some targets. We talked about this the last time you were here. In looking at your most recent departmental plan, we see that it lists a number of departmental results indicators. There are 17 of them actually, and only six of those 17 have any targets attached to them.

You can hear why those targets are so important. If you're going to accomplish something, you have to know what you're trying to accomplish and how you're going to accomplish it. When you hear stories like these heartbreaking stories—and these are just a handful of the ones I've heard—it tells you exactly why that is so important.

Veterans need to understand.... You need to understood that they are real people and that they have real concerns. They deserve better than what they've received from this government so far. I really hope that you will start to take that into consideration when you're setting targets so that you actually have targets and stop failing these veterans so badly.

I've also heard from retired corporal Drew, who is living with a service-related disability. He's now having to live with his parents because housing expenses have gotten so bad with inflation and the cost of living. There are three of them, and they barely can afford to make payments on some shelter for themselves.

Then you look at veterans food banks across this country, which are reporting that the demand for their services has quadrupled in the last three years under this Trudeau government. There is a growing problem of homelessness amongst veterans. Inflation and the cost of living have gotten so bad in this country that now we're even hearing reports of serving members of our Canadian Armed Forces having to live in their cars because they can't afford a place to live.

Would you not agree that this is just one more proof that your government has clearly failed at these results indicators and that you've failed the veterans you are supposed to serve?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Richards, once again what I'll say to that is that we certainly recognize that the cost of living is impacting Canadians from coast to coast to coast, and our veterans are certainly not excluded from that.

Just last week, the government had an opportunity, however, to help support veterans, when it comes to housing with rent supports and wraparound services. Unfortunately, your party voted against those supports.

Again, I ask you.... It is really important that our veterans, yes, are a priority, but we have to work together—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Minister. Please address your response through the chair, please.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Again, I think it is really important that we want to better support our veterans, but we have to work together. When we see a party that is voting against providing additional services, support services, when it comes to housing—rent supports and wraparound services—to make sure we set up our veterans for success, I would be a bit ashamed, I guess, if I were the member opposite with respect to that decision that was made.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Frankly, Minister, what we did was vote non-confidence in a government that not only has failed all Canadians but, in particular, has failed our veterans. Your government has absolutely failed to provide the services and support in any kind of a timely fashion that our veterans deserve.

They fought for this country. They served this country, and they deserve far better than they're getting from your government. That is why we're voting non-confidence in your government, and it's why I believe veterans have lost any trust or any faith in your government. They need to see a government that will come in and fix the mess that you've left behind, and we'll certainly be the government that will do just that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Now I'd like to invite Mr. Wilson Miao to the floor for six minutes, please.

Mr. Miao.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister and her team for appearing today.

I'd like to leave you some time to respond to the previous question. Please go ahead.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you so much for that.

I was just going to respond a bit to Mr. Richards' comment with respect to the differences, perhaps, of the services that we have provided to veterans over the past eight years.

We have to take a road down history. If we remember, the previous Conservative government actually slashed 1,000 jobs from Veterans Affairs Canada. We can't forget that. Those were direct jobs that provided direct services to our veterans. That's a fact.

We also can't forget that the previous government closed nine Veterans Affairs offices across this country, offices that, again, provided crucial services to our veterans—I believe even in Surrey. We reopened that office. It is quite rich that the party opposite is trying to say that we are not providing additional services to veterans. We can always do better, and I think that, as parliamentarians, we do always want to do better when it comes to our veterans. However, we have no lessons to take from the Conservative Party of Canada.

The other thing, as well, that I am going to add is that, since we formed government, we have added an additional $11 billion in direct supports to veterans in the past eight years. That's a significant amount of money. Again, our veterans deserve all the services that we've put in place. We've listened to them, and we want to make sure that they have access to those services. We will continue to be there to support our veterans.

However, again, if we look at the differences that both governments have made, then I think we see that this government has made significant investments in our veterans, and again, they deserve every investment that we've made.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for sharing that with the committee.

Through the chair to the minister, I think we were all quite disappointed to see the Conservative voting in the House last week on the supplementary estimates. These are measures that are essential to supporting Canadians from coast to coast to coast, whether it's funding, as you mentioned earlier, to support the construction of new affordable housing or even the brand new 988 mental health crisis line.

I have to say, though, in this committee, I'm quite shocked at the fact that Conservatives also voted against funding to the Veterans Review and Appeal Board.

Minister, can you share with this committee what those funds are used for and how you reacted to this vote from the Conservative Party?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Once again, thank you for that question.

Last week, I think we saw 120 votes that happened in the House of Commons. I was disappointed when I saw the votes when it came to the funding and investments we're making for Veterans Affairs Canada. Again, these are estimates; these are monies that have been budgeted to make sure we can provide help and support to veterans and those who are in need.

When we look at voting against investments to help on the housing front, just as Mr. Richards indicated, we certainly recognize that many individuals are dealing with affordability challenges. As a government, we're moving forward with programs. We want to make sure we're able to be there to help them with rent subsidies, but also, importantly, wraparound services, to be able to set up our veterans for success. We want to make sure they receive services—whether it be for mental health, substance use and addictions, whatever the case may be—and that not only are they going to have housing, but they're going to have access to the supports they need.

I was disappointed when I saw that.

When we look at VRAB as well, the appeal board, we certainly recognize that they're dealing with a backlog. They've asked us for more funding to make sure they can get through that appeal process more quickly.

Again, these are valuable and important services for our veterans, and we want to be there for them.

You asked how I felt. I was disappointed when I saw the results of that vote last week.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for sharing that.

Regarding the backlog, especially on disability benefit claims, in the recent report of the office of the veterans ombudsperson, she acknowledged the significant progress realized towards eliminating the backlog of disability claims. That said, there remains a portion of the backlog yet to be cleared right now.

Can you provide an update on the progress to eliminate that backlog?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

That's a very good question.

We still have work to do, but I have to say that we have made progress. Last month, we announced some $163 million so we could continue to hire people to process claims.

We realize we still have a ways to go to hit our magic number, so we have to keep making sure we have capacity on the ground to deal with the backlog.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you very much for that.

Minister, as you know, we are currently conducting a significant study on women veterans here at ACVA. We have heard from a lot of witnesses about the challenges that women veterans face once they leave the Canadian Armed Forces. Equipment affects their bodies differently, and the types of conditions they report, and the frequency, are unique. They have oftentimes faced barriers and unconscious bias throughout their careers.

These factors mean that their requests need to be processed differently. Can you speak to us about what work is being done to reduce the gap in processing times between men and women veterans, particularly regarding disability benefits?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 15 seconds, please.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

We'll have to come back to that one, for sure.

I can tell you I've been following the work that the committee has been doing with respect to women veterans, and there are a lot of stories and testimonies that are very disturbing. We certainly recognize that a lot of work needs to be done to make sure we can properly address the needs of our women veterans.

Again, I'm hoping that we'll have an opportunity to continue with this response, because it's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

We now go to Luc Desilets for six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

We are really glad to have you here. As you know, I really mean that. However, I'm going to bring up a subject you aren't very fond of. It has to do with the estimates, for the benefit of my fellow committee members.

We now have proof that the Prime Minister's Office, or PMO, was involved in the affair. In May 2022, the PMO set up a meeting with people from the Privy Council Office, the Department of Canadian Heritage and the Department of Veterans Affairs to talk about the national monument to Canada's mission in Afghanistan.

In July, the PMO asked whether any progress had been made. That's in the 400 pages of information we received.

Do you think all that is true?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I didn't quite understand your question, but—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

For a long time, we have been trying to figure out how involved the Prime Minister or his office was in this situation.

The documents we received contain two pieces of evidence that an invitation was sent and that the PMO wanted to know whether any progress had been made on the file.

Do you agree with that statement?