Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 12th, 2023

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Again, Mr. Desilets, it is important to recognize that the decision regarding the monument was made by the Department of Veterans Affairs, as I've said numerous times.

We did inform the PMO that a decision had been made.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

All right.

Why was the PMO interested?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

First of all, the decision was made by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

As you know, we may not have followed the planned process exactly. We wanted to make sure the PMO was aware of the decision the department had made.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Is the Department of Veterans Affairs independent, or does it have to answer to the PMO for a relatively small expenditure like this $3‑million contract?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Desilets, the Department of Veterans Affairs made the decision regarding the design and construction of the monument, but the Department of Canadian Heritage was consulted on the decision.

The final decision was made by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Minister, would you have made a decision like that?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Again, Mr. Desilets, the process included surveying veterans to find out their thoughts on the monument, which is very important.

Their position was very clear. They chose the Team Stimson design.

They felt it reflected the courage and sacrifice of the men and women who served in the mission.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You are excellent at toeing the party line—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Desilets, please address your comments through the chair, like everyone else.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Yes, that's right. I almost forgot about you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm still here. All comments must be addressed through the chair.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We don't have to discuss the survey. It was dismissed out of hand pretty quickly.

Now you are trying to put the responsibility for the government's decision on veterans who supposedly answered a completely bogus survey.

Can you tell me whether the survey respondents included any women?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

We don't have the gender breakdown for that information.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Can you tell me whether someone could have been tempted to take the survey twice, or did?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Again, I think I was clear in the explanation I gave the last time I was here. An email went out to veterans through the My VAC Account system letting them know that we would be surveying them for their views.

That is why we received 12,000 responses to the survey, which is a lot.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In that case, what do you say in response to Ms. Arbour's interview?

I sent it to you, in fact. I'm a good sport, don't you think?

In that interview, she says she doesn't believe that 10,000 veterans answered the survey, because that's not how it was done. Veterans and veterans' families answered the survey. It's not valid. People could fill out the survey more than once.

According to Ms. Arbour, all the better if 10,000 veterans filled out the survey, but the total number of veterans in the country is 460,000.

Let's pretend the survey is valid. Are you claiming that the opinion of 10,000 people reflects the opinion of 460,000 veterans?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

According to my department officials, 12,000 respondents to a survey or questionnaire about a monument is a really high number.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Set them straight, Minister, or we will bring in a Quebec polling firm to give them some training.

I want to underscore something.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have a minute and a half.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Very well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Don't forget to address your comments through me.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Yes.

I want to read you something it says in a document available on the Department of Justice's website:

Ministers are also responsible for preserving public trust and confidence in the integrity of public sector organizations and for upholding the tradition…of a professional non-partisan federal public sector.

My apologies to the interpreter.

I hope you are upholding that tradition while you are in office.

I would like to give notice of a motion, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Go ahead. I stopped the clock.

The floor is yours, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That, as part of its study on the National Monument to Canada’s Mission in Afghanistan, the Committee invite the following witnesses to appear no later than February 13, 2024:

(a) for one hour each:

i. Kaltie Telford, Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister;

ii. John Hannaford, Clerk of the Privy Council, and Nathalie G. Drouin, Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council; and

(b) jointly, for two hours:

i. Pablo Rodriguez, former Minister of Canadian Heritage, and Lawrence MacAulay, former Minister of Veterans Affairs,

That the Committee add meetings to its regular schedule in order to meet the time frames in this motion, and that additional resources be allocated on a priority basis to hold these meetings.

That is the motion I want to put on notice. I don't need to discuss it now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you for giving notice of your motion, Mr. Desilets.

You have a minute left.