Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 7th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 81 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Today we are continuing our study on the experience of women veterans.

Since we started at 5:10, we have the option of going until 7:10. I know some committee members have commitments and can't stay. I, myself, have to leave at 6:30. We'll talk about it later.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are participating in person, in the room, and remotely using the Zoom application. In fact, many are attending virtually.

I'd like to welcome MP Mike Kelloway to the meeting.

As you know, ladies and gentlemen, the room is equipped with a high-quality audio system, but feedback can occur, especially when someone is wearing their earpiece and gets too close to the mike while speaking. I urge you to be very careful so as not to cause harm to the interpreters.

Lastly, keep in mind that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

Now I'd like to welcome our witnesses. This afternoon we have, for the first hour, Ms. Paula MacDonald, master of social work.

From the Canadian Veteran Service Dog Unit, we have the president, Mr. Dwayne Sawyer, and a member, Kristina Sharp.

Ms. MacDonald, you'll have five minutes for your opening statement. After that, we're going to go to Mr. Sawyer from the Canadian Veteran Service Dog Unit. You can split the five minutes of time. Right after that, members of the committee will ask you questions.

I invite Ms. MacDonald to make her opening statement. You have five minutes. I'm going to try to let you know the time.

Please go ahead.

[Paula MacDonald, Master of Social Work, As an Individual]

Honourable committee members, I am pleased to have the opportunity to share my personal and professional experiences with the VAC ministry pertaining to obstacles women face because of their military service.

I have a master's degree in social work, with significant professional experience working with adults in the medical social work area and providing counselling and therapy at a clinical level. I am a strong advocate for victims of military sexual trauma, because I became one in 2015. I turned to the legal system with the hopes of addressing the epidemic of sexual assault in the CAF by assisting my fellow service members with the class action lawsuit when I provided valuable evidence that displayed the corruption within the military legal system that prevented victims from accessing care and legal remedies.

Veterans Affairs Canada facilitates the care and legal remedies military members receive for things caused by their military service. I have witnessed survivors benefiting from the outcomes of the class action lawsuit, because it has granted them access to care. However, I am concerned that the perpetrators of this violence are not being held accountable for their criminal behaviour and violations of the code of service discipline.

I fear for the safety of members who are still serving. I am still pursuing a human rights complaint with the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal regarding how I was specifically harmed during my military service, as remedies obtained through the class action lawsuit did not address the damages I sustained from the chain of command.

I served in the Canadian Armed Forces between October 2014 and January 2016, first as a medical technician and then as a direct entry social work officer. As soon as I became subject to the National Defence Act, the CAF leadership behaved in a sexually harassing manner towards me that escalated into three separate sexual assaults by different men enlisted or employed by the national defence ministry.

I availed myself of the internal military judicial system, only to experience corruption and lawlessness within the chain of command, with the goal of protecting senior leaders who violated various acts of Parliament and their professional codes of conduct and who were at higher ranks within the chain of command than I was. Many individuals have known that they engaged in human rights violations towards me, because they voluntarily released from service to avoid accountability under the National Defence Act.

Rape was used by military members as a punishment for breaking their code of silence and telling outside authorities of escalating sexual harassment. Sexual favours and sexual exploitation by commanding officers were used to communicate to other men in positions of power control and dominance over me because I dared to report the violations I was being subjected to by military leaders.

When I directly called superiors out on their human rights violations, the superiors conspired with other superiors to suppress my allegations and abused internal legal proceedings to benefit themselves with the goal of avoiding consequences for their conduct.

Doctors, nurses, harassment advisers, human resource management personnel, the grievance authority, military police and supervisors in the chain of command worked together to suppress my rights as a Canadian citizen to have security of bodily autonomy. I have sent the committee email correspondence and other evidence of the chain of command obstructing justice for your review.

Military leaders continued to harass me for trying to file a sexual assault complaint after my release. One such incident occurred in September 2018, when a military police officer called me to scream and yell at me to stop trying to make a report. Military police stationed at the Sexual Misconduct Response Centre refused to accept my allegations from 2016 to 2019.

In 2021, I convinced the RCMP to forward my allegations to the military police. The military police took a general statement from me and did not investigate the actual incidents I reported as rape and sexual assault. They verbally informed my lawyer and me that they were sending my allegations directly to the chain of command to address. However, there is no written record indicating the military police followed through with this action.

The mandate of VAC is to help former members to re-establish their lives post service and address service-related disabilities. I was met with multiple hurdles that stem from how the bureaucracy is set up, and a lack of organizational knowledge as to how to address the significant physical, mental and emotional, and social impacts of sexualized violence in the chain of command.

I was forced to stop working with the Government of Canada in November 2017 because I couldn't access appropriate health and social services to address the injuries I sustained because of my military service. I feel if I had been provided with the appropriate care, I could have continued working for the Government of Canada.

I did not receive access to legal avenues to address sexualized violence when the perpetrators controlled the military legal system and had unlimited access to government support. The victims are responsible for the initial financial legal costs and legal work of proving the wrongdoing engaged in by superiors in the chain of command, who are strongly protected and supported by the system of our government.

Veterans Affairs refused to grant me access to attendant care when I went through an in-depth civilian police interview regarding the first sexual assault I experienced, even though I'm pensioned for PTSD caused by this assault.

The sexual misconduct response centre also failed to provide me with services. I have received threats on social media from retired military members because I advocated for sexualized violence to stop. I feel that services need to be set up to address threats, as they significantly decrease the quality of life of the survivor.

I welcome your questions regarding gender-based analysis as they pertain to disability awards for female reproductive organs and female musculoskeletal injuries and to treatment of MST victims. I also welcome your questions regarding ineffective legal remedies to address military sexual assaults and VAC personnel's interpretation of the Government of Canada's legal responsibility to victims of this abuse. Please allow me to help you create effective mechanisms to stop the institutionalized sexualized violence that harms servicewomen.

I am not alone in my experience with the national defence ministry. I have not given up, because I agreed to serve my country. Seven young men committed suicide during the time I was in basic training, and countless other women experienced sexualized violence during basic training and voluntarily released. The level of abuse impacts everyone.

The Government of Canada needs to help survivors rebuild their lives and ensure the abuse stops by holding perpetrators accountable. Effective health care services and social programming are required to create the defence community Canada deserves.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. MacDonald.

Now let's go to the Canadian Veteran Service Dog Unit with Mr. Sawyer or Ms. Sharp.

Please go ahead for five minutes.

[Kristina Sharp, Member, Canadian Veteran Service Dog Unit]

Thank you for having us.

My name is Kristina, or Tina, Sharp. I joined the Canadian Armed Forces reserves in 1994 as an MSE operator, a truck driver, a trade I served in for four years. Then I became a medical assistant for the last four years of my career. While I served as a medic, I discovered that I had a passion for caring for the ill and injured and channelled that into a civilian career in social services.

I released from the military in 2002. I didn't realize it at the time, but my release was heavily based on the multiple sexual assaults I had experienced during my service. Over a decade later, I came to understand that I needed help in dealing with my non-physical injuries that were caused by military sexual trauma. I was eventually diagnosed with agoraphobia and post-traumatic stress disorder from my military sexual trauma.

I live with PTSD and agoraphobia because of military sexual trauma. Because of that, my world became smaller and smaller over the years. I felt less and less safe. I had talked with my therapist about the possibility of getting a service dog, but finding the right organization was key. Not all service dog providers have high-quality service dogs. They do not support the ill and injured veteran. The costs to obtain a service dog can also be very high.

Then one day I met Dwayne Sawyer, the president of the CVSDU, and his dog Nala. He encouraged me to apply for a service dog, which I did. Before I met Stoker, before he became part of my life and I became part of the dog unit, I rarely went out in public. I had moved to Carleton Place from downtown Toronto but had never really gone out to explore my neighbourhood. Meeting Stoker and being paired with him and training with him and becoming a member of the Canadian Veteran Service Dog Unit has significantly changed my life in a positive way.

Stoker owned a piece of my heart from the moment we met. While walking with him in the training area, my anxiety started to slip away. I was able to be in the present. This was something I hadn't experienced in a new place, around new people, in years. There is something that is significant and healing in the animal-human bond.

Let me describe to you some of the positive effects Stoker has had on my health, my well-being and my sense of peace and security.

The first night Stoker was with me, I slept through the night. It was the first time in ages that I'd done that. He responds when I am having a nightmare, and gently wakes me up with deep pressure. On days when I am anxious, he picks up on my anxiety before I do. He works to distract me, bringing me back to the moment and calming me down. Stoker gives me purpose, something to wake up to, and gives my day a healthier routine. Simple things like grooming Stoker, preparing his meals, baking treats and making sure we both get well exercised has helped me to heal and has contributed to my overall wellness. My world has become bigger, healthier and happier because of Stoker and my place in the CVSDU community.

I am not speaking for just myself today. I am speaking for a community of injured veterans and their families whose lives have been made better by the presence of a service dog in their household. This past winter, shortly after I joined the unit, another injured veteran was paired with his trained dog. They will tell you the same story as mine—a story of stabilizing with a service dog, finding a healthy routine, and healing.

The reason I bring up my colleague's experience is that I want to share with you what happened in his family and household because of his service dog. His spouse told us that the presence of the service dog changed their quality of life and saved their marriage. She literally said, “I used to be his service dog.” His spouse also told us that the service dog has helped heal the relationships between the member and his children, because together they share in the care, play and joy of having a service dog.

Based on our experience, we have coined the phrase, “Our service dogs save lives, and they save families.” We have seen this over and over again. It's not just about the service dog; it's also about the community of injured veterans who care for and support one another within the CVSDU. I've felt supported by both the dog trainers and the other members of the unit.

My dog's trainer is Judy. As a survivor of military sexual trauma, I will tell you that communication and consent are an important part of my healing journey. Judy always checks in to make sure I am in a good place. We always have backup plans if my mental or physical injuries are acting up. With the support of Judy, her husband Ken, and people like Dwayne, Shelley, and other members of the dog unit, I am in a much better place than I was in a year and a half ago. I am feeling much stronger. Because of that, I am starting a process of reconciliation with family members from whom I have been alienated for a long time.

The CVSDU has given me so much life and hope back. I am excited to be a member of this incredibly unique community and connect with peers in a safe, supportive environment.

One other thing that makes the CVSDU special is that we are the only veteran-run charity in Canada that provides trained service dogs free of charge to injured veterans. Other charities provide service dogs to veterans, but their program delivery and trainers are not accountable to veterans. There are some organizations that take advantage of veterans and provide poorly trained dogs or ask the veterans to pay for dogs. The cost of a service dog commercially is anywhere from $40,000 to $50,000.

My journey to a service dog started six years ago. This was not the first organization I applied to. I had experienced large trauma from other organizations that had far less integrity than the CVSDU has offered me from the very moment that I met them.

The CVSDU receives no support from any level of government. We have applied for funding from VAC and tried to engage with the minister through letters. We've been told that there's no clinical evidence that dogs help survivors of PTSD heal. I am here to tell you that service dogs save lives and they save families.

The CVSDU is a special community with an important mission. If any Canadian veteran diagnosed with PTSD wants and needs a service dog, then they should be able to come to our charity, or one like ours. They should be treated with dignity and respect and be provided with a dog and an opportunity to be part of such an amazing, caring community free of charge.

Eventually we want to be able to do that across the country by ourselves or with our partners. We want to eventually become a legacy like The War Amps, CNIB, the Canadian paraplegic organization and other charities that came into being to help injured veterans. We want to become a charity that military members and veterans know will be there for them when they serve their country and are injured because of that service. We are not doing this just for ourselves; we're doing this for the next generation of injured military members. We are veterans helping veterans.

On behalf of all of our members, we want to thank you for this opportunity today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Sharp.

You know that this study that we are doing on women veterans is a special one for the committee. That's why I let you go over five minutes.

I have to give a trigger warning to everyone here. I would like to provide this trigger warning because we may be discussing experiences related to general health and mental health. This may be triggering to viewers, members or staff with similar experiences. If you feel distressed or need help, please advise the clerk.

I know that we had some challenges in inviting you. We are so pleased that you were able to do it. Thank you for your opening statement. It takes a lot of courage to be able to explain or discuss that in front of us, so thank you very much.

I also want to thank you and people in the room for your military service.

Now we're going to start a round of questions. The first round of questions will be for six minutes each.

I'm pleased to invite Mr. Blake Richards to take the floor.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I want to echo the chair's sentiments as well. Thank you to each of you for your service to our country.

Paula and Kristina, thank you for your courage to come and share from your personal experience. I know that isn't always easy to do. I want to thank you for your courage in doing that.

I want to ask each of you a little bit about your experiences with VAC. With the short time you had for an opening statement, you didn't really get much of an opportunity to talk about your experiences with VAC.

Before I do that, though, I want to ask about the perspective of the Canadian Veteran Service Dog Unit. I don't know if it's you, Kristina, or if Dwayne, as the president, is better positioned to answer this. I'll let you decide between you.

I wonder if you could tell us a little bit—Kristina did allude to it a little bit—about your experiences as an organization in dealing with VAC.

[Dwayne Sawyer, President, Canadian Veteran Service Dog Unit]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

I'd like to thank the committee for having us here today.

Last year, our charity applied to the veteran and family wellness fund with a proposal that it would fund the growth of our charity nationally. Our application was rejected because it was deemed that our charity did not have the capacity to undertake such a project, and VAC stated that there is no good clinical evidence that service dogs are an effective form of treatment for PTSD.

It is important to note that service dogs are not a form of treatment for PTSD. Service dogs help individuals and their families deal with the effects of PTSD so that treatment for the injured veteran is possible. Kristina's story in her testimony bears witness to the importance of service dogs in dealing with PTSD.

Last spring we wrote a letter to the then-minister of veterans affairs in an attempt to build a relationship with VAC so that we might work together. The minister responded in a letter dated May 15, 2023. He stated that Veterans Affairs was going to re-evaluate its approach to service dogs.

When we attempted to talk to staff about this re-evaluation in email correspondence, they said that they knew nothing about the re-evaluation and there would be no re-evaluation because there is no good clinical evidence of the effectiveness of service dogs.

We have many questions about VAC and our relationship with it. For instance, is it an experience that VAC does not want to work with us, in spite of the fact that we are a veteran-run charity?

We also wonder why Veterans Affairs won't help fund our growth through the veterans and family wellness fund when it has substantially funded a service dog program administered by a corporate-style charity. It has also funded an equine therapy program for veterans in Prince Edward Island. We are not aware of good clinical evidence that substantiates the effectiveness of equestrian therapy. We wonder what criteria VAC uses to fund projects that apply to the veteran and family wellness fund.

Canadians are going to continue to serve in the Canadian Forces at home and overseas and they are going to be injured. We want to grow our program so that our daughters and sons don't have to struggle as hard as we've had to do ourselves when injured and struggling with PTSD.

We are hoping that one day Veterans Affairs Canada will see the real value of our project and will join with us so that we can help veterans and families who are dealing with PTSD across Canada.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you for that.

It certainly sounds to me as though there might be some inconsistencies in how VAC is viewing these things. Maybe we, as a committee, can endeavour to get some answers when we next have the opportunity with Veterans Affairs officials here.

You mentioned a letter you received that outlined some of the things you talked about. For example, it was saying that there was no clinical evidence, or something like that, of service dogs having any utility. If you could share that letter and send it to our clerk to be distributed to the members of the committee, that would be very much appreciated.

[Dwayne Sawyer]

Absolutely.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

I'd like to give both Kristina and Paula an opportunity. I'll start with you, Kristina.

You mentioned that you have dealt with Veterans Affairs Canada in relation to some of your mental and physical injuries. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your experience with Veterans Affairs and what the nature of that has been?

[Kristina Sharp]

When I released from the military in 2002, I thought that everything was fine. I went about life and carried on.

It wasn't until almost a decade later that things started to get really bad for me and I started my engagement with Veterans Affairs. I've had some incredibly positive experiences with case managers who were incredibly helpful and supportive, but I've also experienced the absolute flip side to that.

I had an incident with a case manager who did an intake with me and went over some very emotional things. It was a very triggering appointment for me. Two weeks later, when she called back to finish the intake, she started from the beginning and had completely forgotten everything that we had been through in the first two-hour appointment. I had to rehash it. It was incredibly destabilizing for my mental health.

I am now permanently disabled, so I don't have a case manager. I've—knock on wood—not had an incident or needed to engage with Veterans Affairs, because I feel like I am well taken care of. My mental health is well supported and I have the resources that I need.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

What you mentioned in terms of having to retell all your story or information is something we hear far too often. It's something we need make sure that we include in our report.

There are only about 30 seconds left.

Paula, as briefly as possible, can you tell us a bit about your experiences with Veterans Affairs?

[Paula MacDonald]

VAC is very committed to serving veterans, but it is often stifled by the system.

There are issues with decision-making frameworks used by employees, as there is a lot of flexibility in the frameworks in terms of interpretation of the law and the medical evidence. What's happening is that a lot of women are having to provide more medical evidence than their male counterparts in order to receive access to health care benefits and to receive the service.

The evidence-based framework was made using male physiology, and women are different. What's happening is that women are having to take decisions through the veterans appeal board to get an accurate medical assessment. That's placing the work on the victim when we have people who are paid to do this work, and it's ending as a complaint-based process as opposed to being a proactive way to use evidence-based frameworks to make the decisions to make the veteran whole again.

There I'll agree with Kristina that it's death by repeating your trauma over and over again, and no one comes to help you. You either make it on your own or you don't.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

Now let's go to MP Randeep Sarai for six minutes, please.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses. I know it's not easy going through this, and I want to thank you for your service as well. It can be pretty difficult to come here and talk and share your experiences.

As well, Ms. Sharp, you mentioned that having to rehash those experiences is not appropriate, and I think that it is not something that you should be harassed to do over and over, so I apologize if VAC has done that to you in the past.

Maybe I'll go to Ms. MacDonald first.

In your experience, what are the main issues that women veterans are facing when transitioning to civilian life?

[Paula MacDonald]

It's the amount of abuse that they have experienced. It's unfathomable. People don't really understand how much abuse the women have gone through in terms of repeated sexual assaults, repeated rapes, and the betrayal by the government system.

Then there are the issues in terms of getting the appropriate medical documentation, rehashing, preparing the legal files—that was a big issue for class members—getting civilian health care professionals who can understand the level of abuse and the impacts of the abuse, and then working with Veterans Affairs in terms of collecting the medical evidence.

Veterans Affairs is using a methodology that was built in the nineties in terms of matching the nineties' health care system, without recognizing the problems or recognizing that we don't have the same health care system. It's a lot harder for us to get the documentation that is initially required in order to provide the health care benefit or service to us whenever we are first starting to get in.

Then other women are experiencing issues in terms of.... Let's take women who went through in the eighties. They were not able to get their musculoskeletal issues taken care of because at the time when they were first going through, there were discriminatory practices whereby they were not being acknowledged. When you have post-traumatic stress and you're going through and trying to compile the medical evidence, the process is very difficult for you, and you need support doing that.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Ms. Sharp, do you want to add something?

[Kristina Sharp]

I think one of the more difficult elements of my transition from the reserves to the civilian world was.... I was quite young when I joined. I was 17, and a lot was ingrained in me. I learned a lot about life and the world from my time in the service, so when I transitioned to the civilian world, a lot of the really inappropriate behaviours that I experienced within my service were so normalized that they transitioned into my civilian career. In my mind, it was perfectly normal to experience sexual harassment, inappropriate touching and all kinds of inappropriate behaviour in my civilian career.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

In your view, what should the government do to address the issues that you've both identified in order to improve services for women veterans?

[Paula MacDonald]

A lot of the time now, trauma services are lumped in with addictions services, and not all women have addictions issues. The trauma needs to be treated in a different way from the way addictions are treated. The women are having issues with people coming in and violating their personal boundaries, while addictions control your personal boundaries and how you function, so it's not the right type of treatment method.

Another thing that needs to be considered is how the benefits are structured. The benefits are structured to really help people who have had longer service careers, and a lot of the women who experienced.... For example, my service was only about a year, and I ended up being abused so much. It impacts your ability to be able to work and your future earning potential. We need to work on that one in terms of helping women to re-establish their lives that way.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

On that same note, when you make a complaint for sexual harassment or the like, I'm curious to know if there are any parameters that are set on the accused, the perpetrator, that they have no contact with you until the investigation is over or even subsequently, afterwards. In the military, is that not the case? Are there no parameters put?

Both of you, I think, mentioned it might continue with superiors, but is the actual accused permitted to talk to you? Are there any boundaries there?

[Paula MacDonald]

There are no parameters put in place, and there's no respect for the victim.

In my particular case, I made a complaint. I was used to working as a civilian. I was a social worker for the New Brunswick government, so I was used to being respected. The military allowed the accused to run the investigations in my case, because they were so used to being able to get away with it that they didn't follow any of their internal policies or guidelines.

It's really badly done. Lots of victims are scared to report, because they know about the brutal way the military will treat them.

I actually got sexually assaulted after I reported the sexual harassment to the Saint John city police, which was an outside agency; and the military police only spoke with those I accused of engaging in sexual harassment and of locking me in a sea can after I complained.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Sarai.

We're going to move on. I'd like to invite you to use the earpiece for translation. You can choose floor or English.

We now go to Mr. Desilets for six minutes.