Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 12th, 2024

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

I stand corrected.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm welcoming any interventions.

For now, we have Mr. Desilets and after that, Mr. Richards.

Go ahead, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I believe we're all aware of what has circulated in the newspapers in recent days regarding the remarks made by a member of the jury. In any event, there should be some written documents on the subject. That's one of the requests that we made under the Access to Information Act. It's not a problem.

It must be noted that the jury's selection was reached by a majority decision, not a unanimous one. I would also note that four of the seven people on the jury were from Veterans Affairs Canada.

With that, Mr. Chair, I would like to go to a vote so that no one delays the process and we can move this matter forward. This motion was introduced two months ago.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Go ahead, Mr. Sarai.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

I think this amendment by Mr. Casey is important. We've had recent reports that there was a perception that the jury was unanimous in its opinion. It turns out it was not. In fact, one of the lay veteran representatives on that jury was dismayed by the decision. It would be good to understand why and what their opinions were, especially with them being veterans.

As we saw, most of the survey results preferred the design by indigenous designer Adrian Stimson. I think, in fact, there was a quote. Someone wished to share it: “Whoooooohooooooo! You made my year! Maybe my decade!!!!” Mr. Windsor, who was one of the jury members, said that. I think that was in the records in some of the correspondence going back and forth.

I think it's very important to understand how they deliberated. Were the interests of the veterans or the views of the veterans taken into consideration? What artistic representation best reflected a veteran and a veteran's contribution and sacrifices?

In support of Mr. Casey's amendment, I think it's very important that we include those documents.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Sarai.

Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Very briefly, I want to thank Mr. Desilets for his support for this amendment because it is he who said during a debate in the House that the jury's decision was unanimous. Now he says that wasn't the case. This underscores how important it is to have these documents.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Since there will be more interventions, we will put Mr. Casey's amendment to a vote.

Do we have unanimous consent to adopt Mr. Casey's amendment?

[An hon. member]

I request a recorded vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We will therefore proceed accordingly.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We will resume debate on the motion as such.

Go ahead, Mr. May.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Just again, on a point of order, Mr. Chair, do we now go back to the original speaking list?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

No.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Not at all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

No, not at all.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Okay. That's fair enough.

I'd like to consider, Mr. Chair, a second amendment. First of all, I'm disappointed that none of the information that is available to us—especially what came about this weekend—is going to be talked about in this motion. I find that very interesting—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. May, I must interrupt you. There is a point of order.

Go ahead, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Chair, I know you were looking elsewhere, and I waited until the last vote to raise my hand. I looked to the other side, and I saw that I had the right to vote.

I think they're trying to extend—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I believe you mean you had the right to speak.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That's it: the right to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

That's true, Mr. Desilets. As I told you, I looked down at the same time as the clerk—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That can happen. Both of you were looking down, but I had my head up so I could look the other way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We didn't see that you had raised your hand. Pardon me.

We will take special care in future to notice raised hands in the room.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Chair, can we go back to what I was saying? I don't know if anyone else managed to see it on your side.

They're trying to extend the debate, but I want to advance the debate quickly. I also have an amendment to introduce.