Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 26th, 2024

[John Senior]

I honestly can't answer that question because it is too convoluted and I don't have enough information to deal with it. I tried doing some research online by reading about and looking at this, but it's too tainted, to be quite honest.

When I look at the National War Memorial outside the gate here, it brings a sense of pride to me. I don't think that could happen anymore at this particular step in the process with the national monument to Canada's mission in Afghanistan because it represents too many other things that are going on. It's not there for national pride. It is a political football, which it should not have been in the first place.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I completely agree with what you are saying. Many of us agree with you. We want to pay tribute to the military commitment in Afghanistan, but at this point, that monument has become a monument of shame. There's too much controversy around it. Solutions are being considered, and we very much hope that the Liberals will be able to accommodate our requests and give the Daoust team back the responsibility for the monument the expert jury assigned it.

Ms. Hughes, your testimony was excellent. I would like you to explain to me whether there are connections between the 27 transition centres that will soon be set up in Canada and the Legion branches.

[Carolyn Hughes]

When I was working at the integrated personnel support centres, before I released from the military and got the job at the Legion, I used to go back every Wednesday morning, and I would help veterans there. We had a memorandum of understanding with the joint personnel support unit at that time.

I would love to see us going back in there. I'm working with them on that, just to have some presence in there. We do second career assistance network presentations. We have presented to transition centres. I would like to see that expanded.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay, but I was referring to the 27 Canadian Armed Forces transition centres that the government will be setting up in the next two months, I believe. Is there a connection between the Legion and these centres? Were you consulted about their implementation, among other things?

[Carolyn Hughes]

Yes, absolutely. We work very closely with them. They refer people to us; we refer people to them. It would be nice to have a person from the Legion in a lot of them. Unfortunately, like a lot of organizations, we're a little short-staffed. Hopefully that will change in the future, because we are very busy. I would love to have somebody from the Legion in each transition centre to help.

As my colleagues have said, sometimes they don't want to see another uniform. They don't want to go into a place where there are uniforms. We can meet in other places. We can tell them to come to our offices at our commands. We can meet for a coffee. We can do different things. It takes a team to help them.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Senior, I will continue my questions in relation to what Ms. Hughes just said. Do you get the impression that veterans are more likely to turn to community organizations than to government services?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Senior, you have about 30 seconds, please.

[John Senior]

It depends. It's on a case-by-case basis, to be quite honest. It depends on the injury. Somebody who has experienced military sexual trauma, for example, may not want to have any dealings with uniforms at all; therefore, this might be a better idea. I think it's on a case-by-case basis, sir.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Desilets.

We will now begin the last round of questions.

Madam Rachel Blaney, you have six minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much.

I want to thank all those who have been here to testify.

For those who have served, I want to thank you so much for your service.

To start off, what I'm going to do is ask everybody about my first point, because I think you all spoke to it. I'm going to start with Mr. Turpin because he hasn't spoken yet.

What I have heard from many veterans is that services are not veteran-centric. They're not focused on the needs of the veterans. I understand that that's very complex because veterans have had many different experiences.

One thing that really concerns me is that services at VAC don't seem to be trauma-informed. What I mean by that is I've heard and read a lot of things come out of VAC where the tone very much says, “You're not behaving, and if you don't do what we are asking you to do by this date, you will face consequences and we will remove everything.” That worries me. Obviously, if people are in that kind of need for care, they often do call yelling. They often do have to process that in a way that can be very hard. I would love to see people better trained to respond in that way.

Mr. Turpin, perhaps I will ask for your opinion on workers at VAC having a deeper understanding of trauma-informed services, hopefully with a lot more veterans working there to provide services to veterans.

[Steve Turpin]

I completely agree with what you are saying and with your approach, but the problem is not really only related to Veterans Affairs Canada. I think it is also related to the services specialists provide to us after our release. People who are not in the forces, civilians, don't know the trauma of veterans. So they don't know how to help us directly, as they have no experience. They have no idea what veterans have gone through. I think veterans are doing the best they can. That said, I think teams of specialists in various fields should be established with at least a basic knowledge of what a veteran is. That way, they could help us.

Not to be pessimistic, but it is unfortunately a lost battle in my case. Nothing serious is going to happen. I tried to get help, but it was very difficult to get because they don't understand my situation.

The benefits are still there because improvements are made every year. As I was saying, when I was part of the militia, I had no support. Now, when militia members and reservists come back from missions, they have access to the same services as a regular force member. The system has been heading in the right direction for a number of years, but there is still work to be done. There will always be work to be done, as every person is different.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Go ahead, Ms. Pollard.

[Susan Pollard]

I am the daughter of an RCMP veteran. I take that with pride. I'm proud to be part of this community. I didn't realize that my experiences within my own family would be so impactful in my work with the veterans I have worked with and currently work with.

In my roles, I have been trained in the assist program. That is key for my ability to support someone who is in a suicidal state of mind or instance. The other major course I've taken is a mental health first aid course. I've had the opportunity to co-facilitate it. It is absolutely important. I believe strongly that these types of courses—and those two in particular—are extremely beneficial for anybody working with these clients, co-workers or comrades, however you identify them.

Recently, I spoke with a veteran on the phone who was very upset with his experience, with his release and with what was happening regarding our conversation. I used my personal experience as a way of helping him understand that I can understand. I'm not a veteran. I don't have that experience. However, as the daughter of an RCMP officer who perhaps never identified that he had challenges, I recognize now that he does. Diagnosed or not, he is having challenges and has to navigate those with limited support. It has been challenging.

As I said, I take a lot of pride in the work I've done...and the access to the supports I've been able to work with.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I only have a couple of seconds, so it's to Mr. Senior. Then if we can close with Ms. Hughes, I'd appreciate it.

[John Senior]

There's no continuity of services for the same injuries, which is a bit of a problem. Veterans talk even after we leave the service. Our cellphones don't get hung up. We still talk to a lot of people. As I said, I connected with 18,000 veterans about the war monument. Our injuries don't go on pause while a decision is being made. Our life still has to go on.

There's no continuity whatsoever. It is a mixed deck of cards, and it's very frustrating because we don't know what we're going to get. Some of the services we're getting are very good, but they don't last. When they're good and the vets are getting happier, they get cut. Then we get something we don't like.

[Carolyn Hughes]

What I can say is that it is convoluted. Services are different for everybody, so it depends on what service you're talking about. Our Legion service officers deal with that every day—the command ones. Whether it's somebody who was denied the IRB, the critical injury benefit or a disability claim, we help with all of that.

I see the discrepancies across the board in a lot of benefits.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you to all of you for your input and your participation in the study on the transition to a civilian life.

For this hour, we had with us, as an individual by video conference, Ms. Susan Pollard. We also had with us Mr. John Senior, a veteran, and, from the Royal Canadian Legion, Carolyn Hughes, director of veterans service.

Thank you to all three of you.

Finally, Mr. Turpin, thank you. We've heard your message. In your testimony, you said that you are well supported, among others by members of your family. We encourage you to hold on, and we wish you courage as you seek solutions.

Is it the pleasure of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.