Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 26th, 2024

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Absolutely. I can't even imagine what it must feel like for veterans like you who served and for the families of those who fell in Afghanistan. Not only can you not get the services you need from the government, but you can't even get a simple monument to recognize your service. We've tried seven times now to pass a motion to get to the bottom of that situation.

I'm going to ask for unanimous consent to adopt the motion I put on notice on November 24. I don't know if you need it read into the record, but I'd ask for unanimous consent to adopt that motion so we can get to the bottom of this and let these veterans feel the honour they deserve.

Can we get unanimous consent for that motion to be adopted, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Richards. You have one more minute to go.

I'd like to ask this of members of the committee, but first of all I'd like to make sure which motion you're talking about, because we have a new one from—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I'm asking for unanimous consent to adopt the motion that I have moved several times for the production of documents related to the national monument for the mission in Afghanistan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

All members understand what they're going to reply to. I'd like to know if there is unanimous consent to adopt the motion.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We don't have unanimous consent.

Mr. Richards, you have one more minute to go.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It's incredibly frustrating. I'm sorry it wasn't possible for us to do that. I had hoped that your plea would be enough, but apparently even that is not enough, Mr. Senior.

Can I ask you about the current state that we see? We're seeing more and more veterans who are out on the street and homeless because of the cost of living crisis. We're seeing more veterans having to go to food banks. We're seeing veteran suicide at rates that are way too high.

When you see your fellow veterans suffering like that, how does it make you feel? Can you tell us how you feel about the state of things in Canada right now with our veterans suffering?

[John Senior]

Thank you for asking that question. I'm really glad you asked it.

We are on a fixed income when we're on disability. The cost of living is going up and we're watching our brothers and sisters in uniform actively struggle right now. We are feeling the exact same pain because as the cost of living index goes up, the money coming in doesn't change. We are getting a pay cut every day. That's what's happening right now. Again, there's a bit of an abandonment issue from not being supported.

The only reason I'm saying this is that we do go through and ask. It is organizations like the Legion and food banks and other organizations that pick up the slack. Currently, I am doing work with the Veterans Association Food Bank in Calgary and conducting programs with it.

Military sexual trauma, again, is not being covered. MST in Afghanistan is different than it was back in Canada. All of it is very heinous. There are issues with a lot of those things that are not being recognized.

Veterans Affairs is behind the ball on a lot of things. The cost is hurting and Canadians are leaving. What has not been talked about is that veterans are leaving and going to Mexico, Thailand and the Philippines because they cannot afford the cost here. This has not been discussed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

[John Senior]

I'm sorry about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

It's just because we have only six minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

You will have more questions coming from members of the committee.

I will invite Mr. Mike Kelloway to go ahead for six minutes, please.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not normally on this committee, but it's a privilege to be here at the moment to speak to each of you.

My questions will be for Director Hughes.

Back home in Cape Breton, we have quite a few Legions that do amazing work for veterans. In many cases, they will do some work for the RCMP and regional police. People forget that there's a large contingent of regional police officers who have gone overseas, whether it be to Afghanistan or Kosovo. One thing I've heard from those who are working in the Legions on behalf of other veterans, as I believe has been heard in this committee, is the red tape at Veterans Affairs Canada.

I'm looking to see if you can unpack quickly an example of how we can lessen red tape on a particular issue that's important to you and veterans, because we want to create better efficiency and effectiveness, as opposed to closing Veterans Affairs offices like the previous Conservative government did in Sydney. We had to open them up. I want to see where we can create better effectiveness and efficiencies, from your perspective.

[Carolyn Hughes]

I think automatically approving some disabilities would greatly help. There are certain conditions that are associated with certain trades, as the previous speaker was mentioning, and some of those should be automatically presumed to be related to service. That would greatly help. It would alleviate the backlog, because more would be going through on an easier basis, for lack of a better word. That enables treatment to be paid for.

For example, if somebody has a bad knee and needs a brace or needs injections, that is not paid for until you have a successful disability claim. It can take a while. It's gotten a little better—I must give Veterans Affairs that—but when the worst backlog was happening, it was two years before somebody would get a disability claim approved for a knee. There were a lot of people whose conditions worsened during the time when VAC could have approved claims, and it would have been much better for the individual, their family and their quality of life also.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you for that.

I'll pass my time off to my colleague.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for your testimony and for helping us help veterans transition.

My question is going to Ms. Pollard.

Ms. Pollard, you said that young veterans had a tougher time dealing with transition and that technology can help them with simple things like My VAC account and logging in. Is there anything else you can tell us about how we can help younger veterans like you transition into the workforce?

[Susan Pollard]

To clarify that, I think what I meant was that all veterans experience the burden of technology support, not just the young ones.

In my experience in working with younger veterans, I know that it comes back to identity. Some of the younger veterans I have worked with have served for five or six years, for instance, and they've released and then gone on to other careers. They've gone on to become a teacher or an electrician, for instance. Oftentimes that service gets forgotten, but the impacts of that service still exist. I think it's important to bring light to that.

I go back to the core of this, and service records are vital. The release screenings are vital. Those conditions perhaps didn't exist the day they released, but they can exist in a year or two years, and it's important to do proper follow-up.

It's important to recognize that no matter the stint of time they spent in the RCMP or the Canadian Armed Forces, it was time served to our country, and the impacts of that still exist even if they've left.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

My next question will go to Mr. Senior.

We've heard a lot about the importance of ensuring that the transition to life after service is as smooth as possible. An article from November 2023 about your work for veterans with PTSD and trauma said that “many veterans and first responders have ‘white coat syndrome’”, which you say is “a hesitancy to seek medical help”, and they're “more likely to seek support from someone with a shared experience.”

That sense of community is obviously important to veterans. Ms. Hughes sees that, and that's why the Legion is there. It's a continuation from what they know from the military, in a sense. We also know that PTSD can often show signs many years later after they leave the forces.

How can Veterans Affairs better support organizations such as yours and others to identify those things and treat those syndromes?

[John Senior]

Thank you for the question. It's a brilliant question, actually.

I was talking with the Veterans Affairs ombudsman, and one of the things I recommended was putting veterans who are able to work the front lines and the phones in place first. This would allow them to work alongside the caseworkers and CSTMs.

When I left the military, fortunately enough, I worked with OSISS through the national joint council of Veterans Affairs and DND, and I got to work within Veterans Affairs for three years on national defence. It was a very unique position, and I got to see a lot of things happening.

Putting in the recommendation of having veterans answer the phones and talk to the people on the other end of the phone—because we get it—and working closer with the Legion have been very successful for me. The people coming in do not understand the needs of some of the veterans. If a veteran is yelling and screaming on the other end of the phone, you don't hang up on them. There is a need and we must answer that need.

The reason I've been successful in doing peer support and have a good pulse on the veteran community is that I'm listening. People do get angry and I deal with people talking about suicide on a regular basis. Rather than calling 911 immediately, I try to find out what's going on with the guy first. I ask, “Are you thinking about it, feeling it or just talking about it?”

Bringing MAID into the whole thing was a very bad thing as well. It sent a lot of bad messages to the whole veteran community. Again, we're essentially a pariah or we're too expensive.

Does that answer your question, sir?

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

I now give the floor to Luc Desilets for the next six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Senior, my questions are mainly for you. You referred to all the trust, the respect you had when you were in the armed forces. In light of your latest comments, am I to understand that you do not have that same trust in the Department of Veterans Affairs?

[John Senior]

Can you clarify the trust part, please?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do you trust the work that the Department of Veterans Affairs is doing?

[John Senior]

I do, yes. I do trust that the intent is good and I trust that they want to help. However, because there is a gap of understanding, we feel dismissed.

I used to be, as I said, in charge of aircraft in Afghanistan, so a lot of things I would do would be mission critical. When I talk to someone on the phone and tell them what I really need and they say they're going to question me on that, it's kind of demeaning and disrespectful.

Obviously, there are veterans out there who are going to take advantage of the system, but to Mr. Sarai's question, that kind of stuff can be alleviated as a first roadblock to determining whether someone is genuine or not. Somebody who has no experience dealing with certain veterans will not know what is genuine. This young lady here would completely understand what I'm talking about with certain people who are trying to get services, and they shouldn't be questioned too much.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That's clear.

I thank you for your service in Afghanistan, and I want to stay on that topic.

You said something very sensible, that a monument should not be a political issue, but rather a national recognition. We all agree that the Department of Veterans Affairs has done a good thing in setting up a competition for the design of the future national monument to Canada's mission in Afghanistan.

Given that you went to Afghanistan and know about the monument, do you respect the decision of the jury of experts regarding that competition?