Veterans Affairs Committee on March 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Let's go to Ms. Hepfner.

You have the floor.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to reiterate what my colleague Mr. Casey was saying.

Thank you, Mr. Casey, for those excellent remarks.

Just to underline it for any veterans who have been following this committee, this monument is being built. Whatever is happening here at committee is political; it's not holding up the construction of that monument.

I think it absolutely makes sense to bring the National Capital Commission here to hear from them for all the reasons my colleague Mr. Casey outlined. Therefore, I will happily support this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hepfner.

Now I have Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

This is an interesting amendment, and I just got it in my email, so thank you for that.

Of course, I have concerns about there being extra committee meetings on this issue, because we have the women's report, which I brought with me. I'm getting through it. I think the analyst has done an incredible job. I'm really enjoying it. We also have a study, which we have now twice told one of the witnesses, who is a veteran, that we were cancelling. That does concern me. I met with her earlier this week to talk to her about a few issues. That definitely came up as a concern, and she expressed her frustration, so I'm really listening to her.

I don't have a subamendment in my brain, but I'm wondering if we could talk about perhaps having the committee send a letter to get confirmation. Then we wouldn't take up time with testimony. It would allow the committee to make sure the needs of the veteran and the concerns you have brought forward are addressed. I'm just wondering, if I proposed that, whether Mr. Casey would be interested in entertaining it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Before I go to Mr. Casey, I have Mr. May, unless Mr. May would like Mr. Casey to respond to Ms. Blaney.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Yes. Go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Please go ahead, Mr. Casey, and after that, it's Mr. May.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have two responses to Ms. Blaney's question.

Number one, she wouldn't need my consent to make a subamendment, but if she was inclined to make a subamendment along the lines that she just described, she would get it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Casey.

Mr. Bryan May, go ahead.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to lend my support for this amendment, because it is very important that we clear the record. During the last couple of meetings, during which we have had numerous conversations in this place, a number of times folks have suggested that the monument itself is being delayed as a result of what's happening here. There are delays happening but not with the monument. The delays that are occurring are of course with the women's study we have in front of us. I agree with my honourable colleague that the analysts have done an incredible job with that. There are also six or seven others. I have spent a lot of time going through those and reminding members here and folks watching at home that we have agreed to a number of other studies that are critically important to the veterans I speak to. When I speak to folks about this issue, their only issue is that the monument needs to be built as quickly as possible.

Hearing from the National Capital Commission is really important. Whether that's through a letter or witness testimony, I think it's important not just to set the record straight here for us but also to reassure the veterans who are watching this very closely that the work to build something like this does take time and that it is not being delayed as a result of what I've dubbed a deep-sea fishing exercise.

I think we need to see that record corrected, and I wholeheartedly support this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

I have Ms. Blaney and after that Mrs. Wagantall.

Ms. Blaney, go ahead.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I would like to move a subamendment to delete the first part—“the committee invite”—and to instead have “the committee write a letter to”, and then leave everything else as it is. I think I have it right. That is what I propose.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Right now the clerk is looking at it. I'm pretty sure the analysts will help them to translate it, and we will send it, as with the previous one, to all members of the committee.

Ms. Blaney, could you please repeat the subamendment?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

What I am saying is that we would delete “the committee invite” from what Mr. Casey proposed, and then add in that space “the committee write a letter to”. Then everything else would stay the same with regard to their role and so on.

Is that helpful?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you for that.

First I have Mrs. Wagantall. I saw three of you; I don't know which one was first. I also have Mr. Casey, Mr. Sarai and Ms. Hepfner.

Mrs. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I just want to understand the dynamics of this motion and amendment. Mr. Casey is saying that the NCC, the government and the creator of the monument they recommended and chose are going ahead with the building of the monument the government chose over top of their procurement group, which was given that responsibility. I want to understand that, first.

Am I understanding correctly that it's irrelevant, really, what would come out of this committee? The study was about the procedure, not about the monument itself. We've heard from our veterans as well the frustration over the fact that, once again, the government is doing things outside of their own rules. When you serve in the military, transparency, following orders and doing things appropriately are really important. That side of it is still an issue.

On top of that, we are all here very engaged with the veterans who were here this last week.

Mr. Casey, who specifically did you speak to and get this perspective from out of those who were here as guests last week? Who spoke with you or who did you speak with following the meeting?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I have Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

First of all, my understanding of Ms. Blaney's suggestion was that there would be a letter in addition to a witness, but the subamendment appears to choose a letter over a witness. I prefer the “and” to the “or”.

My indication that she would have my agreement was based on my misunderstanding that there would be a letter and a witness, but what I'm hearing is that she wants a letter instead of a witness. I think it would be of significantly more value to the committee to have someone from the NCC here to answer our questions as opposed to a letter that may not answer all of our questions. While I'm happy to see a letter, I'm not happy to see a letter replace a witness.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Mr. Casey, but I think that bells are ringing so we have a vote in 30 minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Chair, can we have unanimous consent to sit through the bells?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Yes, that's what I'm going to ask members of the committee.

In 29 minutes, we're going to have a vote. Members of the committee, do I have unanimous consent to continue before the vote?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I don't have unanimous consent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call the meeting back to order.

First of all, I'd like to welcome Tim Louis. He's replacing Wilson Miao.

We have a subamendment on the floor. On the list, I have Mr. Casey, Mr. Sarai and Ms. Hepfner.

Members of the committee, let me say something. As chair of the committee, I'm a little concerned because we have been discussing this motion for a few meetings. I don't want to cut off debate at all. That's not my hope, but I'd like to tell you that we have 16 meetings left until June. I remind you that we have a lot of things to do. The clerk always tells me that we need an agenda to continue our studies, so please do whatever you want, but have that in mind so we can continue our work plan.

Mr. Casey, you have the floor.