Veterans Affairs Committee on April 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Bury.

On behalf of committee members and on my own behalf, I would like to thank all the witnesses for participating in this study on the transition to civilian life.

We were joined by Mr. Philip Lopresti, who testified as an individual, and Mr. Paul Bury, a retired major-general, who runs Helmets to Hardhats. We also had Mr. Mark Meincke, retired corporal, who hosts the podcast Operation Tango Romeo, about trauma recovery for service members, veterans, first responders and their families.

Once again, we thank you for your contribution.

We'll take a short break to welcome the second panel of witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call the meeting back to order.

I just want to reiterate that we must continue to be very careful with acoustics, microphones and earpieces to protect the health of our interpreters.

It's my pleasure to welcome two witnesses for the second panel.

On behalf of the committee, I'd like to apologize to you, because I know you were at a previous meeting, especially Ms. Aristocrat, and we were unable to have that meeting. This time, we're going to discuss transition to civilian life.

I'd like to welcome both of you.

As an individual, we have Rima Aristocrat. the president of TeKnoWave and by video conference, we have Stephanie Hayward, who is also here as an individual

You are going to have five minutes each for your opening statements, and members of the committee will be pleased to ask you deeper questions for the study.

Let me start with Ms. Rima Aristocrat for five minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Rima Aristocrat, President, TeKnoWave Inc., As an Individual]

Thank you, Chair.

Good afternoon, everybody. I would like to thank each and every one of you for allowing me to share my observations and experiences.

I held the position of president and CEO for over 35 years at Willis College before retiring. It's a private career college located in Ottawa. As I am now retired, I'm busier than I have ever been, with grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I was honoured to be appointed as an honorary colonel of the Canadian Armed Forces Network Operations Centre, CFNOC. I sit on advisory boards and am starting my eighth global forum on engaging women in cybersecurity. There's also my pride and joy: TeKnoWave Inc. I'm the founder and president of TeKnoWave Inc., which is Canada's first national IT non-profit organization. It will celebrate 25 years next year.

During my tenure as the president of Willis College, I created the veteran friendly transition program, or VFTP. A question was asked today about the transition, and I am so pleased that I can answer it.

The VFTP was brought to fruition after seeing the many hardships that Canadian veterans studying at the college experienced and were still experiencing in making the transition from our armed forces to civilian life. I brought together former students who had served in the Canadian Armed Forces and experts in the fields of career development, employment, mental health, education and training.

The veteran friendly transition program was a transition program for veterans that provided a flexible and supportive veteran-friendly career and learning environment that helped enable veterans to find gainful and meaningful employment following their service to Canada. Developed by and for veterans, the program included three components: a career and employment support program, a personal support program and a training support program.

The VFTP helped to ensure that veterans had the skills and abilities needed to effectively transition from military to civilian life. Veteran support coordinators, who were themselves former members of the Canadian Armed Forces, were hired full time to assist and guide the students from the moment they entered the college to when they successfully graduated—and in some cases long after they graduated.

Our guiding principles were to be veteran-centric and hold the veterans at the centre of all decisions, to be compassionate and ensure that veterans were treated with compassion and respect, to provide veterans with the necessary support and services to succeed while in a program, and to form partnerships. The VFTP team formed many wonderful partnerships to help veterans succeed.

While developing the VFTP, I began to realize the importance of the military family unit. They are the unsung heroes behind those who serve and have served in the Canadian Armed Forces. They are the families left behind while their loved ones are on a deployment, not knowing if they will return safely.

With that knowledge, I formed the “Soldier's Hero” scholarship. Each year, this gave a military spouse the opportunity to take the programs of their choosing at Willis College completely free. The selection committee was made up of two members of the military family resource centre, a mayor with a large base located on the outskirts of town, an executive director of an organization that provides equine therapy to members, and serving members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

I would like to point out the importance of supporting our military families, for they are the backbone of our veterans' success, and I would like to share some of the observations from my years of working with veterans.

When our program began, the biggest issue I saw for veterans was employment. However, in recent years it has changed to homelessness, addiction, the cost of living and mental health. Essentially, the work of upskilling veterans and helping them in their transition is being set back due to the current cost of living crisis. I keep hearing that the supports are there for veterans. However, not all veterans are in a position to access those supports.

As an immigrant, I'm fortunate, and I'm proud of our country. However, being here for the past 50 years, I have also witnessed hardships, especially those our veterans are enduring—the cost of living crisis, inflation eating into veterans' affairs, the government delaying construction of the national monument to the mission in Afghanistan, the housing crisis, homelessness and too many others to mention. Many veterans who attend the college served in Afghanistan. The day after the last Remembrance Day, I recall them discussing how their monument was still not completed. Some were upset; they served their country, and wanted their fallen comrades to be remembered.

I never served in the Canadian Armed Forces. However, I see how proud members are about serving their country. We owe them so much for their service. We cannot forget the sacrifice they made.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Ms. Aristocrat. You are over the five minutes, but I can give you 15 seconds to conclude.

[Rima Aristocrat]

Thank you.

I read an article about DND and the lack of training. It's so important that we provide opportunities for military services. For them, offensive and defensive are things they're familiar with. They come with secret clearance. Most importantly, they still want to serve their country.

With that, Chair, I will honour your timeline. Thank you again for inviting me. I'm ready for any questions that I can respond to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much for your opening statement.

Now let's turn to Ms. Stephanie Hayward for around five minutes.

[Stephanie Hayward, As an Individual]

Hello.

A common theme that women veterans experience through the transition to civil life is to be left with little support or concern about their gender conditions related to service, or to be forgotten, frankly, or pushed to the side. In terms of asking for help, you shouldn't have to lay down all your pride, or be so low in life that suicide is the only option to remove the pain, to finally receive help from CAF or Veterans Affairs.

I understand that CAF, Veterans Affairs and most people don't consider me a veteran because of my short service. They like to highlight that I'm an “employment casualty”, as some Veterans employees have stated. I can't speak on the transitions of women veterans who have served full careers in the military, whom I highly respect, but I have highlighted, in the written statement I've submitted with my opening statement, that I reached out to some women veterans' networks and received from them the direct barriers they've faced when transitioning to civil life.

I never had transition services when I was released from the military. My human rights and my employment rights were extremely violated. I was silent out of fear that I would be killed, raped again or put in military corrections, as it's in the best interests of national defence that Canadians don't know there's a serial rapist group in the Canadian Armed Forces.

I was 19 years old when I started with the Canadian Armed Forces. My whole life was ahead of me. I signed up to see the world. Instead, I was left with debilitating trauma that affected every aspect of my life. Both my labours were high risk because of my untreated military service injuries. My daughter developed neonatal subcutaneous fat necrosis with hypercalcemia caused by me having to push at nine centimetres due to scarring from my sexual assault. She spent the first two years of her life in and out of hospital and developed food restrictions after that. She became stable at three years old.

I was on bedrest for the majority of my second pregnancy. At 20 weeks, I was contracting with high-risk premature labour. I was put on bedrest and had long stays in hospital, with no one to care for my four-year-old child at home. At 33 to 34 weeks, I was bleeding, with a risk of developing infection, and it was safer to deliver him at this point. When he was delivered, he wasn't able to breathe on his own and had to stay in the NICU.

Even being on the Veterans Affairs rehab program—only for a short period of time—I received no support during this time. I was left to figure it out for myself. While fleeing domestic violence, I received very little help—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Ms. Hayward. You're going too fast. The interpreters are having problems. Can you go a bit slower? You have more than three or four minutes to go.

Please go ahead.

[Stephanie Hayward]

When fleeing domestic violence, I received very little help with securing housing or furniture. I had to wait for five months, until I received my first pain and suffering award for PTSD, to pay movers to move me out of public housing to my safe home. My daughter and I slept on a blow-up mattress for three and a half months, while my son slept in the bassinet. Honestly, all that mattered was that my children and I were safe in a beautiful, warm home.

Even though I'm extremely grateful for the income replacement benefit that has supported me in providing shelter and food for my children, being at the lowest threshold of 90% of the lowest amount, I'm not entitled to the 1% career progression, even with the diminished earning capacity, or DEC, decision. Unable to have gainful employment makes me fear for my future stability to provide for my children.

In 2022, I was approved for the CAF long-term disability benefit, or LTD, from the date of my release. Veterans Affairs doesn't honour the same rate of pay as SISIP for a basic corporal. In 2011, veterans who were medically released were struggling financially and taking their own lives, so the lowest pay was changed to $4,500 in 2011.

For the lowest paid 90% threshold, Veterans Affairs uses the threshold of $4,500 with no increased pay for lost career progression and DEC, so I have the same rate now as I did in 2009. I am struggling to provide for my children and cover the high-cost needs of a single mother. Inflation is also at an all-time high. I can't afford to pay for a full-time child care spot for my son. I need child care to attend my medical appointments for my military injuries, which were denied for 15 years, until the beginning of April 2024.

The truth is that updating women's health benefits is an amazing achievement, but not supporting child care to attend medical appointments is just another huge, invisible barrier that women seeking treatment face. Veterans Affairs will pay for someone to take me to my appointment, but won't cover upfront child care service expenses, which are safer for the mother and the child. I have to choose to pay my mortgage or pay for child care.

I understand that the majority of women veterans are past their child-bearing years or, because of their military injuries, have fertility issues and a higher risk of labour complications, like stillbirth, or are completely unable to have children. However, in 2025, there is going to be a massive release of medically injured Canadian Armed Forces women of child-bearing age. If Veterans Affairs doesn't make women's health a priority now for current and future women veterans, we're going to have an epidemic of children and women suffering.

I went 15 years without pelvic floor treatments. I had to take my young son to assessments earlier this month for physical therapy. I was physically ill because of the number of triggers during the assessment. I had no choice. If I don't start treatments as soon as possible, I will be at high risk of having to get a hysterectomy. My son watched me vomit outside my vehicle and cry uncontrollably, and he shouldn't have to.

Hearing the experiences of all women veterans, the government's silence makes me feel forgotten. To be frank, I feel it's a numbers game. The longer veterans go without receiving essential medical care, the more it highly impacts their quality of life and results in a shorter life expectancy. However, for the Canadian government, that's a saving in the long haul for the bottom dollar.

All women veterans' human rights, medical rights and labour rights will continue to be violated and ignored if the women veterans study isn't tabled in Parliament as soon as possible. Our Canadian Armed Forces are faced with extreme global threats. This is a small window in which members sitting at this table have to make a huge impact on the quality of life of women veterans. Even though it is difficult to discuss my gang rape and my life experiences after that, I speak up to help other women not have to go through the same extreme harm.

I would like to end my testimony by honouring the lives of women veterans who have been lost due to not being medically treated for their military injuries, the women veterans who did not receive their rights and benefits and the women veterans who lost their battles with mental health, their medical conditions and poverty related to service. My heart goes out to the families of our lost but not forgotten servicewomen. I pray for the Canadian Armed Forces women and women veterans who have struggled with fertility, miscarriage and stillbirth, and all the little lives we have lost because of the unfair treatment of women's reproductive health while they serve and after service.

I ask this committee to table the women veterans study as soon as possible in Parliament to help protect the safety of women veterans and their children.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hayward.

Thank you to both of you for your contribution to the country and for your courage to be a witness and share your situation. I can assure you that the committee is working hard on the report you're talking about on women veterans, and it is going very well.

Let's start the rounds of questions. Members of the committee are ready to ask both of you questions.

I'll start with Mr. Richards for six minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you to both of you for your testimony today.

I wanted to particularly thank you, Ms. Hayward. I know how incredibly difficult it must be to share that sort of testimony and your experiences. You've now done that on a couple of occasions with this committee. I certainly share your desire to see the report you mentioned tabled as soon as possible, because it is incredibly important that we honour the courage people such as you have shown in sharing testimony with us.

Ms. Aristocrat, in your opening remarks, you talked a lot about what you've been seeing more and more among our veterans over the last several years: the struggles they're facing with the cost of living crisis we're seeing in this country, the homelessness, the addictions and the many other challenges faced by our veterans. I wonder if you could talk a bit more to some of those effects you've seen on our veterans. Also, do you have any specific examples of what some of the veterans you've worked with through your work are struggling with in terms of the cost of living crisis, homelessness and so on?

[Rima Aristocrat]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

As I've said, I've been retired from Willis for three years now and have not really been in touch with my veteran students, but during the five years that I was there, it was enormous for me to learn that veterans actually were suffering. I learned all about PTSD, what veterans were going through and what they needed in order to be comfortable, even in the arrangement of classrooms. I did not realize, as somebody mentioned, the personal invisible scars they had. I had veterans who were suicidal.

My practice was to see everybody in person. I wanted them to come. I wanted to hug them. I figured that I was old enough and nobody was going to take that in any discriminatory way. At that time, I worked with my mentor, retired Lieutenant-General Walter Semianiw, who some of you probably are familiar with. I was learning a lot from his lessons about how to deal with things and what to do.

I remember one particular student. When we announced the VFTP on Parliament Hill, I wanted all of the Willis graduates, who included Mr. Sparks, a graduate from 1958 and a World War II hero, and the new VFTP students, to be proud on Parliament Hill regarding the VFTP. One particular student said that he wouldn't come. I asked why, and he said, “All your healing, all your hugs and all your making me believe that life is worth living paid off.” I asked what he meant. He said, “I'm going home because I haven't seen my mother for Christmas, and I'm going to give her a hug.”

When we heard this, both Mr. Semianiw and I had tears in our eyes. It's about understanding the human side of showing kindness to people. It doesn't need to be big, but they need to be remembered. They need to be respected. They need to be loved for what they've done for our country.

There were many other situations where students could not afford to go places because financially they could not afford it. It was very hard for me as an immigrant to see this. Never mind that we see homeless people on the street, and never mind that we see people in retirement homes passing away with nobody there for them to hold their hand. I've witnessed a few of these things as well. There are young people, full of life and full of wanting to do something more, who should not be experiencing that.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I think that's unfathomable to all of us. It's the idea that veterans who served this country and were willing to lay their lives down for this country come out of service—and we hear stories like the ones you're talking about—and end up homeless or can't afford food.

I've visited veterans' food banks across this country. They're seeing record numbers among veterans. Is there any excuse for our veterans to ever end up in that situation? Does the government need to be doing more to ensure veterans don't end up homeless and relying on food banks?

[Rima Aristocrat]

I cannot find any excuse, and I believe each and every one of you would say the same. There is no excuse.

For somebody who gives us the life we have here.... The liberty and freedom we are so proud of did not come by themselves. They took a lot of sacrifice—people's sacrifice.

I have to mention families as well. It's not only veterans. Their families are unsung heroes. They sacrifice so much for them. What do we do? Once a year we say thank you to them. What about the rest of the time when they cannot afford to pay rent? What about the times when they cannot feed or clothe their children? What about the times we have to pick up homeless veterans who are freezing out on the streets?

There's no excuse for it. Our country is too great. We are too powerful. We are too kind to let this happen. In this room, you have the power to make changes. Let's do this together. It's so important.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I don't think anyone could have said it better. Thank you for that. Those words were incredibly powerful.

You also mentioned in your opening remarks the impacts that you've heard of from some of the veterans you know who served in Afghanistan. You talked about the importance of honouring those veterans every single day and making sure we're there to provide what they need.

You mentioned the importance that many of them put on the monument that honours the sacrifices that 158 Canadians made in Afghanistan and the memories that their families have, and how important that is for all the others who served over there. Can you speak a bit more to the importance of making sure that those veterans are honoured with the monument they deserve?

[Rima Aristocrat]

When I was at Willis, I talked to many veterans who served in Afghanistan. I was actually learning a lot about where veterans were serving and what they were doing. I can only share what I heard because I'm not a veteran. I'm not in that area, but if I hear something, as a mother and as a woman it touches my heart and I want to share. They were actually very upset that the monument was delayed.

It was not until later on when I became an honorary colonel.... Last week, I had the honour, as part of my role, to give medals of promotion to some of the veterans serving. It was 350 people, I remember. It was only 11 medals. As I was presenting the medals, there was pride and happiness on their faces. Their wives came up and were standing beside them because they were proud.

Even little things like this give them hope. It makes them realize why they did what they did and why they were sacrificing their lives. They are remembered. They are recognized. They are honoured. That's why I think it's so important. They want to see that their comrades who fell and passed are honoured. I don't blame them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I want to thank you for your testimony and for the work you do for our serving members and veterans. It's appreciated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Now I'd like to invite Ms. Hepfner to go ahead for six minutes.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to turn back to Ms. Hayward.

Thank you for your testimony and the emotion and story that you bring behind it. It's clear how much this has affected you. I'm new to this committee, so I haven't been here for the other times you've testified. It's really impactful to hear from you.

I want to assure you that I have learned a lot from this study we're completing on women veterans. I don't foresee any delay on the report. I think it's really important that everyone sees what's in the report as soon as possible.

When it comes to military sexual trauma, I know that you don't feel you had enough support when you were trying to leave the military. What in particular can we offer to veterans who leave the military with sexual trauma?

[Stephanie Hayward]

I think what's most important is not to be looked at as a liability. I wasn't treated like I was a human. I was treated like I was a liability, because the number games weren't in my favour. It was a group of men who were powerful, who could do what they wanted and get away with it and who knew the systems and policies. However, if I had had a third party away from National Defence, like a social worker or somebody sitting with me, and wasn't completely exiled to the other side of the unit in the medical place where I was contained, I wouldn't have been so.... It was such a scary, traumatic experience, and I didn't even trust the medical providers providing care to me.

At that same time, I didn't have rights, even to a rape kit. I had no rights to anything because, to me, I was so new that I was a selected out victim. I was selected out because they could get away with it; they could release me with no benefits. Who would want to stay when you first start at an employment and that happens?

I was told during the process that if I just kept quiet, I would have a comfortable career within the Canadian Armed Forces and would get through training. However, at that point I was scared that it was going to happen to me again, or I was going to die this time or end up in prison, because that's what they said: If I didn't shut up, they would charge me with going AWOL—all of these things. However, I didn't speak French, know how to catch a cab or have a driver's licence at that point, so how could I get anywhere? How could I end up in a location without knowing where I was?

At the end of the day, I think there should be more safety by making sure there are no drugs on campuses, there are no illegal pharmaceutical drugs on campus, there are support systems in place and there's a governing peace officer for women or male veterans who have experienced sexual assault who is a third party and can protect these people.

Just because my injury happened doesn't mean my military employment should have ended. I could have been treated with dignity and respect and had treatment after it. If I had been treated like a human..... There are bad people in every single situation you go into. In every single workforce there's somebody who's questionable, but if I had been treated with dignity and human respect.... I know that had a huge impact on how I looked at the world and at the government because I was just a liability to them.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That makes a lot of sense. I think what's shocking is how often this happens to women in the military. It's very shocking.

I can tell that this is not just a mental trauma for you. It's also been physical. It was a physical reaction when you had your children. I can see in your testimony how much it's still affecting you, your children and your relationship with your children.

When people get out of the military with this trauma—I think you spoke about getting financial support because it's not possible for you to work right now—what other kinds of supports, after they leave the military, do you think should be in place for women in your situation?

[Stephanie Hayward]

Well, the problem with my situation was that because it happened in the military, I wasn't able to access any victims' services in civil life. I couldn't access anything. I was basically told to go to the military to ask for help, and then I did. There were multiple times over the span of 11 years that I asked for help. I begged for help. I was homeless in a pregnancy shelter and it was asking for help from Veterans Affairs, and they said I wasn't eligible for any benefits and wouldn't even let me apply.

Maybe we should have someone actually talk to somebody, sit down with them if they're a victim of sexual assault within the Canadian Armed Forces and make sure they're entitled to the right to appeal or to make a separate application to somebody who's a third party. I just know that for 11 years I was barred from even applying for benefits, so I can imagine how many lives we have lost of women who didn't make it through.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's fair enough.

Would you offer any suggestions on supports for families? This is not just about veterans, as we've heard today. Their families also serve. I think we've heard them called “unsung heroes” today. What other supports would you offer to the families of veterans?

[Stephanie Hayward]

The blunt truth, to be frank, is that my children had more assistance while I was on social assistance than I have had with VAC. They have no medical coverage. They have no coverage of any kind for treatments or benefits. Even though my income is sufficient and I can provide those things, it is a big chunk of change, especially when they have mental effects from me. I had to pay for therapy out of pocket for my daughter to go to 12 different sessions, but I'm glad I did because it helped her tremendously.

Generational trauma is a huge factor. I know that my grandfather had PTSD. He served in the military during World War II, and the generational effects it had on my mother and my aunt are huge. He never had support. Their family never had support. For my own family, I have very little support.

I'm currently begging Veterans Affairs to help me with child care so that I can go to my appointments and my son doesn't have to witness inappropriate appointments and his mom being in pain. It's a hard thing for him to see, and he's a boy. I find it odd that Veterans Affairs would pay for an escort to take me to my appointments and sit there with me, but won't pay for my child to be in a safe environment while I'm in my own safe environment, decompressing from a traumatic treatment. It's good for my health, and I have to do it, but at the same time, I find it odd. Once again, it's one of those programs that was designed from a male perspective.

I totally agree that the program should support veterans, but it needs to look at the women's side as well and realize that there haven't been any updates for child care, services and family supports or any treatment benefits for military children.