Evidence of meeting #91 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was life.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you so much.
I will now give the floor to Mr. Luc Desilets.
Mr. Desilets, you have about six minutes of speaking time to ask your questions.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My questions are for Ms. Hayward. When did you leave the armed forces?
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I'll repeat the question.
In what year did you leave the armed forces?
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
I'm sorry. Wait just a minute. We're going to make sure we hear the interpreters.
Ms. Hayward, on your computer, did you choose—
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
It's no problem.
I'm speaking in French now. Do you hear, in English, what we are saying in French?
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
We'll continue.
My question is for you, Ms. Hayward. In what year did you leave the armed forces?
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Can we say that you have stopped trusting the armed forces and Veterans Affairs Canada?
12:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I lost hope for a long time, because I was at the bottom. I was in poverty. I was forced to live in conditions that were not suitable. I have lived in fear for most of my life and I still do.
At the same time, I see the changes that are happening at National Defence and VAC. I think it takes voices like mine for them to understand there's a human perspective behind what we need to be changing, because it's not just affecting my life; there's a ripple effect.
I see changes that are happening, I'm just nervous that they're not being implemented soon enough. I feel like women continue to get hurt without supports in place. At the same time, there are men getting hurt as well, but I feel like the sexual misconduct.... To my knowledge, there are at least eyes on it. There are at least people asking the questions, asking for protocol policies and trying to help.
The problem is that I come from a family of serving members, and it breaks my heart that I haven't been able to serve my country as I intended to. However, I believe that my testimony today is helping me gain that back and will help other veterans as well. I have hope, and I guess that's all I can hope for.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
So it's safe to say you're starting to trust the system again.
12:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, I am, especially with the women's study on the table that you are going to be presenting to Parliament. I believe that if it's followed through on, our stories aren't going to be for nothing. It's going to protect the veterans who are standing behind us, and the current serving members who are standing behind us as well.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
We thank you very much for your confidence in us. Like you, we hope that our report will bear fruit. This long report contains 54 recommendations arising from the 23 meetings we held with veterans.
Can you explain to me why you left the Canadian Armed Forces without any pay or benefits?
12:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I wouldn't change what they wanted me to say. They wanted me to say that it was a hazing and that I would heal. They wanted me to say that it was a misunderstanding and it wasn't a criminal act.
At that point, I looked back on my life and realized that I should have just shut up. My life would have been a whole lot easier. I don't know if I would still be alive today, because it probably would have happened again. Once you invite abuse into your life, it just continues to happen. Even though I was a strong-minded 19-year-old woman—I was just a fresh, new adult—I left out of fear that I was going to die.
At the same time, the criminals who perform these acts know that if something back then happened off base, it's early in your career, so the chances of your following up within the Canadian Armed Forces are very slim. They target young women who are entering basic training because they know they're not going to have any ability to prosecute or get benefits. There's no reason for us to stick around. We're easy targets.
Honestly, to be very frank—and I hope this doesn't give people any hard feelings—people should look at National Defence as one of the largest human trafficking rings out there, because they get away with it.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Subsequently, and until the end of your service, did you come across any of your assailants in the positions you held?
12:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I was threatened every day. They were sitting outside my room at the hospital. They were on guard to make sure I didn't talk to the RCMP and to make sure I didn't take off and talk to somebody else. They escorted me home on the plane. However, they didn't say, “Hey, let's give her some mental health support and get her an appropriate doctor.”
My accusers were fully blown into the.... That's their game, though. That's their ability to get away with what they did, because it was supported throughout the system. It was very common. They had a system to deal with it, and their way of dealing with it was containing it.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Ms. Hayward, approximately how many aggressors are we talking about, or even precisely, if that's possible?
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Eight! Have any of these assailants been court-martialled?
12:55 p.m.
As an Individual
No, because the evidence was destroyed, and I was contained, so I didn't get a rape kit. There was no way of proving who was involved; there was no way of proving anything. They contained the information and removed me from service, so it was easy for them to get away with it.
I fear and know there are other women out there who experienced the exact same trauma from the exact same group of people who are still sitting at home. The truth is, and I don't know why, but one of the people who hurt me came forward and reported it. The CAF was more concerned that he lost his life than it was concerned about my statement. At the end of the day, VAC and CAF believe criminals are more entitled to fair pay than their victims, and that's the sad part. Lots of people who helped cover up the crimes are still working because there's...implication of the government.
At the same time, I'm not trying to get blood from anyone. I just want to move on from this. I want to get the services I need to heal and move forward, because I know there's no chance of me criminally charging anybody. I just want to move forward.
