Evidence of meeting #14 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Fraser Tolmie Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
Ms. Anderson, I'm sorry for your loss. I thank you for your husband's service.
I appreciate what you're doing and what you continue to do as individuals, which seems to be something that VAC should be doing.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you, Mr. Tolmie.
We'll go to Mr. Casey for six minutes.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Marceau, I also want to thank you for your service to the country and for your testimony today.
I want to go back to a topic that you and Mr. Tolmie discussed: your hunger strike.
If I understand correctly, after your military career, you were very frustrated by the lack of family doctors.
Is that what prompted you to go on a hunger strike?
As an Individual
At first, my motivation was revenge. Now, it's my life's mission. Last year, I wouldn't have been able to testify in such a calm and composed manner. I did a lot of yoga and pulled through all by myself. I speak in my name to share my story. I've only recently become strong enough to talk about it. I was curled up in a ball and taking horrible pills for years.
As for the hunger strike, it was indeed to have a doctor, but also to draw attention to what happens to veterans with no doctors. It's not working at all. It's ludicrous. I came back from Afghanistan with 14 diagnosed health issues and couldn't get a doctor. It's ludicrous.
Back in the army, I only went to the doctor if something was broken or torn. I never abused health services, but I need a prescription and a check-up from time to time, just like anyone else. Will I have to become an astronaut to get a doctor? What do I have to do for my country to deserve one? What about my buddies?
I was talking to one of my buddies yesterday. He's the greatest warrior I've ever met. He went to Afghanistan four times. He's not one of those show-off bodybuilder with huge arms who need their special vitamins. He's a true warrior who's completely devoted to his country. I'm no slouch myself as far as warriors go, but he's on another level. I went to Afghanistan once. He went four times. Yesterday, he wanted to kill himself. He's got so many issues. He has no doctor. He takes a ton of pills.
I'm sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here, but this is so emotional. I'm sorry. The doctor situation, for me, is the icing on the cake. That's why I'm so frustrated. It's having to pay to go to a private clinic even if I pay taxes like everyone and served in the military, which is more like a sacrifice nowadays. And then I have to go to the private sector? Absolutely ridiculous.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
What was the result of your hunger strike?
Did senior officials or any other person responsible for managing the health care system in Quebec contact you?
You mentioned getting something from Mr. Harris. How did senior officials react to what you were doing?
As an Individual
I have written promises obtained by Mr. Desilets from Mr. arris that weren't kept.
At first, my case manager was supposed to find a doctor for me, my ex-wife and her two sons. Even if she's my ex, she deserves it just as much as I do because she was with me for 12 years and with her children's father for 14 years. He was a soldier who went to Afghanistan and who has major issues to deal with.
I have a letter from Deputy Minister Harris right here. Promises were made and were all broken. I was told with big, hollow words that there would be no doctors and that nothing would happen.
I'm sorry. I'm no parliamentarian and I'm not good with words like you are. A warrior is what I was.
That would be my answer to you, sir.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you, Mr. Marceau.
I want to make sure I get a question to you as well, Ms. Anderson.
You indicated that for the last 16 years, you've been working with some widows, I presume, whose husbands died at their own hand. Based on that experience, what advice do you have for this committee in terms of recommendations to be brought forward to reduce, eliminate or help with the scourge of suicide within the forces and among veterans?
As an Individual
I don't think I can give an answer on the prevention efforts. I come in afterwards. I can talk about the issues that survivors have with that, but I don't think I'm qualified to talk about before it.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you for your work with those who are going through it, and thank you for being with us today. I'm very sorry for the loss of your husband.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
I think I'm out of time, but you'll get lots of questions on that, I'm sure.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
I'm sorry, Madam Anderson.
Ms. Gaudreau, you have six minutes.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
We have been studying this issue for several meetings now. Last Friday, in my riding, three very active veterans in the Laurentians said that it was fortunate that they had each other, because they were trying to save each other's skins.
People came to tell us that they supported thousands of organizations.
It is always the same message. The bureaucracy has become rigid. Once they have served their country, veterans are abandoned, and not only them but their spouses also.
Let's start at the beginning. When someone enlists, what happens? You are made to pledge allegiance, and you are trained to be excellent at your job.
That said, what are you told when you begin training?
As an Individual
That's a good question, Ms. Gaudreau.
I'm speaking for myself here, but I think it's pretty much the same for a lot of my buddies.
I was an active kid and played a lot of sports. In my generation, our heroes were Schwarzenegger and Stallone. That's what we watched back then. One of my friends, who is 37, told me I was a dinosaur.
At 16, I lost interest in school. What interested me was the military and group life. Leaving the military was the biggest tragedy of my life. Now I can sleep, but tomorrow morning, I would go back to serve in the forces until they tossed my ass out, nothing less. Excuse my language.
For me, civilian life... I have nothing against civilians; we all have our roles to play. In fact, your role is super important today. However, according to the psychiatrist, I was a soldier at heart. I lived and breathed the military.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
What about your preparation for the military? I heard you say that military service was something of a sacrifice.
As an Individual
Among other things, sure. I'd say it's similar to firefighters and police officers to an extent, except for the fact that, in the army, deployments can be brutal.
I'd like to make a distinction between missions. I'm not here to badmouth other missions, but the medal for the mission in Afghanistan has sharp edges. It's different from the other medals, and there's a reason for that. My English-speaking brothers, who taught me to speak English, called the other medals “drinking medals”. If you stay in the army long enough, you'll get them. However, the mission in Afghanistan was brutal. It just wasn't the same.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Did anyone tell you how important and valuable you were?
Did anyone tell you that you were a hero, as you said earlier? Did you feel that way, before and during the mission?
As an Individual
A hero? Hard to say. Not really, no.
In Afghanistan, everything moved really fast. That was also true for the cooks and the stamp lickers, as we called them.
In the army, we have our own language. We call it “ripping on each other”. That's what love looks like between guys. We call each other names, we insult each other. The tougher the mission, the harder we insult each other.
My buddies would say to me, “Hey, fatso, I hope you don't get shot, because we don't want to break our backs dragging your heavy carcass back.”
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
That's called playing down the seriousness of a situation.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
After experiencing all this, which is extraordinary for a human being, you were treated a certain way. You mentioned having been abandoned after coming home.
Is that something that people such as yourself had anticipated?
Did you ask yourselves what you were and what purpose you had served?
As an Individual
I wasn't able to anticipate it. To be honest, we were very well prepared for our departure to Afghanistan, but the return was horrible for me. I was completely out of sync. I arrived here moving at 100 miles per hour, with my bayonet between my teeth, used to not sleeping and doing everything that normally took a day in two hours.
Then you get to the grocery store and you're eighth in line. That's a problem veterans face. Civilians don't get it. When you're in line, you feel exactly the same way you did in Kandahar, next to what we called “Candy Lane”. There was a plastic barrier separating the two lanes. We were sitting in an RG‑31, it was 45°C or 47°C—oddly enough, the air conditioning wasn't working—and we were gritting our teeth, waiting to get blown up. When you're waiting in line, you feel exactly the same way. There are lots of things like that that I discovered for myself.
To answer your question, I was ready to go there, but I wasn't ready to come back.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
In conclusion, since I don't have much time left, it's as if the preparation was very good, but the return home and the whole process that follows really left something to be desired. I'll ask you more questions about that later.
We prepare our warriors, we respond to their mission, and then it's, “Thank you, that's it. Good luck.” Basically, we need to invest as much time in the medium and long term after returning home as we do in preparing for the mission. That's what I understand from what you're saying.
As an Individual
That's it, essentially.
As you mentioned earlier, among veterans, we're more likely to respond to our buddies coming up and saying, “Hey, big guy, take a breath. If you kill yourself, your wife will be left with all the crap, and your kids will be traumatized.”
You're exactly right, Ms. Gaudreau.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Exactly. That's solidarity among veterans.
Thank you very much, Chair.