Evidence of meeting #16 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was accounting.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Jill McKnight  Minister of Veterans Affairs
Tessier  Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer and Corporate Services, Department of Veterans Affairs
McDowell  Acting Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs
Harris  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs
Freeman  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Planning and Performance Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 16 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Today, we're meeting for two hours to consider the supplementary estimates (B), 2025-26, and today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Before we continue, I will ask our in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, including the interpreters.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules for witnesses and members to follow.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. Please mute yourself when you aren't speaking.

For interpretation for those of you on Zoom, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

Allow me to welcome the Honourable Jill McKnight, Minister of Veterans Affairs, who is joining us for the first hour of this meeting. She is joined by Christine McDowell, acting deputy minister; Steven Harris, senior assistant deputy minister of service delivery, who is joining us by video conference; Pierre Tessier, assistant deputy minister of the chief financial officer and corporate services branch; and Mitch Freeman, acting assistant deputy minister of the strategic policy, planning and performance branch.

Thank you for taking the time to appear today.

We will begin with the opening remarks.

Minister McKnight, you will have the floor for five minutes. Thank you very much for joining us today.

3:35 p.m.

Delta B.C.

Liberal

Jill McKnight LiberalMinister of Veterans Affairs

Madam Chair, members, I'm pleased to join you today to discuss the supplementary estimates (B) for Veterans Affairs Canada.

Since my last visit to the committee, I've had the privilege of participating in commemorative ceremonies and events across Canada, before, during and following Veterans Week and Remembrance Day. Each experience was a powerful testament to the strength and sacrifices of our veterans, broadening my perspectives and filling me with an even greater sense of respect and reverence. Canada owes a debt of gratitude to all those who have worn and wear the uniform. The Government of Canada remains steadfast in its responsibility to deliver the care, benefits and recognition that our veterans and their families deserve.

Through these supplementary estimates, you will see that expenditures for Veterans Affairs Canada will increase by $14.2 million over the forecasted amounts. I would also like to speak to items in budget 2025 that directly relate to Veterans Affairs Canada and veterans. Through this budget, we are delivering on our commitment to Canadians when they elected this government: spending less on government operations so we can invest more in Canadians, including our country's veterans.

We are taking concrete steps to ensure that veterans receive the compassionate, timely support they deserve. With budget 2025, our new government is investing $184.9 million over four years, starting in 2026-27, and $40.1 million ongoing to stabilize the disability benefits service delivery system. This investment includes $24 million, over two years, to modernize IT infrastructure and operational processes to manage increasing demand. Budget 2025 reflects the government's firm commitment to providing veterans with responsive and accessible benefits in a timely manner, backed by permanent funding in the years ahead.

Additionally, the budget aligns the reimbursement rate under the cannabis for medical purposes program with current market prices. To be clear, we are protecting access to medically authorized cannabis for those who are qualified to claim it. The adjustment does not impact veterans' authorization for reimbursement, eligibility for the benefit or the daily gram limit. On a cash basis, the adjustment will save $127 million annually. In line with public sector accounting practices, future savings must be recognized immediately with changes to the benefits that impact long-term liabilities owed by the federal government. As such, budget 2025 accounts for $4.23 billion in savings, the long-term impact of the reimbursement rate change. With the adjustment to the reimbursement rate of the cannabis for medical purposes benefit from $8.50 to six dollars per gram, the actual impact to Veterans Affairs Canada's annual budget remains less than 2% on a cash basis. Veterans can and should be assured that no reductions to any other service, benefit or program are included in these savings.

I would also like to address the proposed amendments to the Pension Act, the veterans well-being regulations, the Department of Veterans Affairs Act and the veterans health care regulations, which are included in Bill C-15, the budget implementation act. The amendments to the Pension Act will clarify that “province” does not include Yukon, the Northwest Territories or Nunavut for an annual adjustment method for disability pensions and related benefits.

The BIA is also updating the rules to make it clearer how annual adjustments are calculated for the former earnings loss benefit. Additionally, it clarifies how the maximum monthly charge for accommodation and meals is calculated in the long-term care program. Taken together, these updates make the calculation methods easier to understand and remove any confusion about how they should be interpreted. Overall, they will offer veterans more clarity and transparency. These updates do not change how benefits have been calculated in the past, nor will they have a retroactive approach for the reimbursements that have been paid.

We are updating definitions in the legislation to reflect Veterans Affairs Canada's practices. Canadian Armed Forces members, CAF veterans and their survivors will continue to receive the same benefits they are currently receiving. The same formulas will continue to be used when calculating these benefits.

Under the Pension Act, CAF veteran pension increases will continue to be calculated as they have been, using the higher of the consumer price index or the wage rate increase. This is exactly as it was prior to the introduction of the budget implementation act.

Finally, Madam Chair, I will add one last update. I am pleased to share with the committee that, effective immediately, a diagnosis of Gulf War illness will be accepted as part of a disability benefits application. While Veterans Affairs Canada has always accepted claims from veterans for illnesses and conditions related to their service in the Gulf region, the recognition of Gulf War illness was only recently added to the international classification of diseases, which provides some guidance used to inform decision-making.

Over the last months, I've had the honour of speaking with Harold Davis and Mike McGlennon, respectively president and vice-president of the Persian Gulf Veterans of Canada, as well as colleagues from the House and the Senate. I would like to thank them all for their strong advocacy.

I encourage any veteran who has a diagnosis of Gulf War illness or related conditions to reach out to Veterans Affairs Canada if they believe they have conditions that were not previously recognized.

Colleagues, thank you, and I'm happy to take your questions.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

Thank you very much, Minister.

I have to say that the last part of your announcement is, I think, for many of us who had the pleasure of listening to some of those veterans, very good news, if I may say so.

Just before we start the round of questioning, I want to make sure that all questions are addressed through the chair. I always say that Christmas and the holiday season are on the way, so let's make sure that we have a very good meeting today.

On this, I will invite Mr. Richards to speak for the first six minutes.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

Minister, how many times did you and the Prime Minister meet to discuss the portions of the budget related to Veterans Affairs prior to its introduction?

Jill McKnight Liberal Delta, BC

The budget process was a comprehensive process that had a lot of engagement, with many individuals providing input on the needs of Veterans Affairs Canada and on how we could best support veterans.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

How many times did you and the Prime Minister meet to discuss the Veterans Affairs portions prior to its introduction?

Jill McKnight Liberal Delta, BC

Again, there were numerous meetings to discuss the needs of the portfolio and how we could best address those, and as we've seen—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

Were there numerous meetings between yourself and the Prime Minister?

Jill McKnight Liberal Delta, BC

There were numerous meetings to discuss the needs of the portfolio.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

In those meetings, was it you who advised the Prime Minister to make such deep cuts to Veterans Affairs?

Jill McKnight Liberal Delta, BC

I disagree with your comment about cuts. This is actually an investment in Veterans Affairs of $184.9 million with ongoing funding of $40.1 million to follow.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

I will tell you that veterans across this country are concerned, because they're hearing about the cuts. They're worried about the fact that your government hasn't been transparent about what those cuts will be, and that leaves them concerned for their services and benefits. Could you perhaps give some transparency and accountability to veterans right now and tell them what those cuts will be?

Jill McKnight Liberal Delta, BC

There will be no cuts to benefits or services for veterans. There is an adjustment that is being made to the rate of reimbursement for medical cannabis, from $8.50 to six dollars per gram. There are no cuts to benefits and services.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

Okay. You actually are asking veterans to believe that cutting the rate of reimbursement on a $245-million-a-year program will amount to $4 billion over four years. I don't think any veteran will believe that. I don't think we'll get a different response from you on that, so I'll move on.

I have another thing I want to ask you about. We've heard a number of different areas of concern where there has been some indication of what your government's going to do. I want to ask you about a couple of them.

The first is with regard to vulnerable veterans in long-term care. Due to a mistake, I think an honest one, made by your department, those vulnerable veterans were overcharged for their long-term care. The response by your government was to sneakily put into, say, page 375 of the BIA a retroactive change to the legislation that would ensure that those veterans continue to get shortchanged. On the other hand, we have disabled veterans who, again due to a mistake by your government, were overpaid on IRB. Now they're getting bills for tens of thousands of dollars in many cases, going back six or eight years, and being expected to repay those immediately. These are veterans who are vulnerable. They're on a fixed income. They may be dealing with mental health injuries. This might drive them right over the edge.

The commonality in both these cases is that veterans are the ones who are getting screwed. That's the commonality in those cases.

I guess I have to ask, why is it your government's reflex to always make veterans pay for your mistakes?

Jill McKnight Liberal Delta, BC

As I articulated in my opening comments and as I have said, there are no cuts or changes to the benefits and services veterans receive.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

Are you telling me that the bills these veterans are receiving for tens of thousands of dollars are going to be wiped out, then?

Jill McKnight Liberal Delta, BC

If a circumstance has changed in a veteran's life, such as a change in their income level from a variety of sources, then there may be times when an adjustment is made. As such, there may be communication with a veteran. I encourage any veteran who has a question about the services and benefits they're receiving and the financial elements to reach out to Veterans Affairs to speak to their specific individual case.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

Well, I will certainly encourage veterans to do that, but I can tell you that this is a problem that is affecting many veterans. We've heard often in this committee about sanctuary trauma. This is another example of that sanctuary trauma. Your government is imposing these kinds of things on veterans, and they're having massive impacts on their mental health. I certainly hope it won't lead to another veteran suicide, because that is the kind of concern I'm hearing out there.

Let me turn to something else. This is in regard to your plans to move to utilization of AI in processing veterans' claims. The government's own algorithmic impact assessment says that the new AI system will apply consistency, compliance and financial efficiency filters. That means that's coming before human review.

We already hear from many veterans who say there isn't enough humanization in Veterans Affairs. Can you explain in plain language to this committee and to veterans how what you're looking to do differs from the idea of an automated denial of benefits?

Jill McKnight Liberal Delta, BC

The use and implementation of AI as a tool can help with the administrative roles of—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

I'm sorry to interrupt, but there's not much time left.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

Mr. Richards, do you want an answer?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

I don't have enough time to listen to something that's not going to really respond, so—

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

Actually, you do not have any more time, Mr. Richards.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB

You just interrupted me, Chair. I do have time.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

You have over six seconds already on the clock additional—