Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2025

[Jill McKnight, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Change will come with the investment in veterans—sustainable, long-term investment that is ongoing—so that we can continue the progress we are making.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Now we will go to Mr. Clark for five minutes.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here today.

Minister, I know that you've been staying fully abreast of what's been going on in this committee and within the department. When you were in my riding the day before Remembrance Day, we had a meeting with the organization that, as you say, had lots of good things to say but some things that needed to be improved as well. When you're dealing with an organization as complex and big as Veterans Affairs, that's to be expected. I think that's mature and responsible, and that's what Canadians would expect from all of us.

We've heard about service delivery and the need for veterans to get the best possible care, which I know you agree with. It's something that has come up during the study that we're doing right now on suicide prevention, and this is reflected, I think, directly in the budget, with a $185-million investment over four years for service delivery, so I'll give you an opportunity to speak about how you think that will improve the service delivery model for veterans across the country.

[Jill McKnight, Liberal, Delta, BC]

The opportunity to engage in the experiences that veterans have with the individual frontline staff is at the core, as is making capacity available to engage with more veterans, as I said, through the use of modern technology and the incorporation of technology to support those activities.

In terms of the specifics of how that would roll out, I would turn to the department officials who will be implementing those specific steps to speak to what that will look like.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

I will certainly ask about that in the second hour as well. Thank you, Minister.

I also wanted to make sure we had a chance to clarify some of the discussion around the $4.2 billion in the budget. You mentioned in your opening remarks, I believe, that you see that as savings over time as opposed to cuts. I think that's a meaningful distinction, and it's an important distinction. We've heard this referenced on the floor of the House today and in social media. We need to be as accurate as possible for veterans. I think that's really key.

Minister, could you explain for me, for the committee and for veterans how you see that figure? When you say you see it as savings, what exactly do you mean by that?

[Jill McKnight, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you for the opportunity to provide more clarity around that.

This is an adjustment to the rate of reimbursement for medical cannabis to be in line with market rates. As I said, we are not changing who qualifies for it. We're not changing how much they receive. We're not changing any of those elements of this. This isn't about an adjustment that then has long-term implications when we look at the accrual process; I'm sure others will get into the specifics of that.

In making this adjustment, the impact is significant and allows us to ensure we are not cutting any benefits for veterans. They will continue to receive the benefits and services they have been receiving to ensure we are able to meet the needs of all veterans who come forward.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

To characterize that as a cut in core programs or services for veterans would be inaccurate, in your view. Is that right?

[Jill McKnight, Liberal, Delta, BC]

That is correct. To characterize it as a cut would be inaccurate.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

I think I have about a minute left, Minister, and you only have a few minutes, so I wanted to give you a chance in this last minute here to clarify, touch on or highlight anything you wanted to correct or amplify that has come up over the last hour.

Thank you.

[Jill McKnight, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Certainly. Thank you very much for that.

One of the items I didn't have a chance to speak to that I would like to is the acknowledgement of Persian Gulf illness. One of the other elements that the Persian Gulf veterans have also been working with Veterans Affairs on is the commemoration of the 35th anniversary of the Persian Gulf War, which will be taking place in the new year. Again, that speaks to the acknowledgement of modern-day veterans and that the department is working closely with those veterans on that for the new year and the 35th anniversary.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

On this good news, I must say thank you very much for providing us with this update. I think the Persian Gulf veterans will be very happy, and we should amplify your news today, Minister.

Thank you on behalf of our committee for joining us, and merry Christmas and happy new year. We wish you the very best, and I have a feeling we'll see you some time next year, Minister.

Thank you very much for coming today.

On this note, I will suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I now invite members to return to their seats so we can begin the second hour of our meeting.

The Department of Veterans Affairs will be with us for the remainder of the meeting.

Before starting our second round of questions, I will remind members that we have two items in the Supplementary Estimates (B) that this committee may wish to vote on, so about 10 minutes before the end of this meeting, I will dismiss our witnesses so we can proceed to the votes.

We will now start our second hour of questions and answers with the witnesses from the Department of Veterans Affairs.

I would like to welcome the witnesses.

We're going to go right into questions and answers, witnesses.

We'll start with Mr. Viersen for six minutes.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank the witnesses for being here.

To carry on with my colleagues' comments around veterans in long-term care, folks have approached me saying there are over 100 cases where a veteran has been moved from one long-term care facility to another, and it's splitting up marriages, or spouses are being left behind in another care facility.

Are you aware of this?

[Christine McDowell, Acting Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Certainly, we know that families are very important to the care of our veterans, and ensuring that those families have the support that they require in order to support the veterans is critical, particularly as veterans age into long-term care.

For specifics on the cases, perhaps I'll turn to senior ADM Steven Harris, who is joining us.

[Steven Harris, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs]

I'd answer by saying this. Admissions to long-term care facilities are done based on provincial decision-making. We can define eligibility for veterans who are eligible for long-term care, and we often work with local facilities to make sure that families can be kept together in institutions where that's possible.

As you might expect, sometimes veterans have different levels of care needs and other things that may be difficult.

Long-term care is a very challenging space across the country. There may be gaps in availability in terms of accessible beds and other things, but we work with families quite deliberately to make sure that if families—husbands and wives who are partners—want to remain together, we're able to work with facilities to help support them.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Is there a particular contact person or area that we should be pursuing with these cases?

[Steven Harris]

In any case where there may be a challenge, I would suggest that members raise that directly with the minister's office. The minister's office will work with the department, and the department will be happy to work with long-term care facilities and families who are expressing this concern.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Turning to the headlines that have been created around the Veterans Affairs ministry, in budget 2025 it's been reported that $4.2 billion in cuts will be coming to Veterans Affairs. Now, we've heard previously from witnesses that 95% of the budget goes to veteran services or payments.

Can you explain to us how this is going to work and where those savings are going to come from?

[Christine McDowell]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for his question.

I think the minister covered the reimbursement rates for cannabis for medical purposes in her remarks and that the overall accrual costs represent savings rather than cuts to any programs that veterans are accessing. Perhaps I'll turn to Pierre Tessier, CFO, to respond to the question in more detail.

[Pierre Tessier]

Just to elaborate on the actual $4.2 billion, really the most appropriate reflection of the impact is in the budget. There were two numbers in the budget. There was $4.2 billion and $129 million ongoing. The $129 million ongoing is less than a two per cent reduction in the budget overall, and the way to characterize that and the way that I see it—because accrual accounting is not simple as we look at it—is that you characterize the $129 million over a 30-year period, which gets you to approximately $4 billion and that, when there's a change to the program, the change has to be reflected in a four-year period, which you see in the budget currently.

These calculations of accrual accounting are done through the office of the chief actuary, which is an independent organization responsible for completing all analysis for the Government of Canada on all these types of pension programs.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

You're saying that a $250-million program will have a slight reduction over the next four years. You're going to count that as a $4.2 billion.... That doesn't make any.... I guess over 30 years, $129 million per year makes it $4.2 billion, but how come it's being reported in the 2025 budget?

[Pierre Tessier]

Just to continue to clarify, if there's a change to the program once the budget is passed, we have to reflect those numbers in a four- to five-year period, because those costs are no longer amortized over a 30-year duration—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I mean, it sounds to me like the government wants the headline to be that we're being fiscally responsible, but we're not actually doing anything. It doesn't feel like there's much taking place on this. It's not real.

[Pierre Tessier]

The reduction in programs is the ongoing cost of $129 million.