Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 4th, 2025

[Todd Hisey]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Mr. Clark, you have five minutes.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to direct my questions to Dr. Whitman and Ms. Reeves as well, so that's a good segue.

I'll start by saying quickly that I'm a Dal graduate myself and a Nova Scotia MP, so I'm very proud of the fact that the Dallaire Institute is headquartered at Dal and has done and continues to do amazing work in our province and across the world, really. Thank you for that.

Dr. Whitman, if you wanted to finish your thought, you were talking about generational trauma, and then, Ms. Reeves, if you wanted to touch on the work you're doing, that would be great.

Thank you.

[Shelly Whitman]

Thank you for the opportunity.

Yes, at the Dallaire Institute, we work around the globe, and we work with military and police to train them in how to interact with children in armed conflict. What we have found is that the interactions those particular service members have when they encounter children in armed conflict and then come back home have an impact on the next generation as well, yet there is hardly any research done on this particular issue or the supports for the children.

If you'll allow me, I'd like to give my colleague a moment to respond to that.

[Kathryn Reeves, Dallaire Institute for Children, Peace and Security]

Thank you for the opportunity to respond.

I reiterate that the encountering of children is uniquely morally injurious, and many children I've talked to through my research talk about how parents come home and can, in some ways, no longer parent; they come home and they can't hold their children or look them in the eye because of the children they saw while deployed. This is often not addressed on any level. The veterans are not asked about these encounters, and the children have no opportunity to come forward.

My research has predominantly involved adult children who have slightly more agency to talk about their experiences, and what they tell me is that they are deeply disappointed in the way VAC offers support to families. Once they turn 18, they are largely forgotten about and not considered as a military-connected family member anymore.

For many of these children having to support their parent, their parent becomes the centre of their household and experiences, so it isn't until they are past 18 and able to go into their own homes or have new experiences outside of being a child that they are even ready to understand the way that having a parent who has been injured by service impacts them.

At that point, it is already too late. There is no support from VAC; there is no funding. They are left to civilian providers who have no training in military cultural competency and are also unwilling to ask these challenging questions.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you for that.

It's a really important point that you raise. Over the course of this study, which we're wrapping up today from a witness standpoint, I think, and as we start to think about reports and recommendations and so on, the issues around families and spouses.... We've heard from spouses and children as well, and it's equally important in many ways to make sure they have support to help themselves and help veterans. Hopefully, we want it to be a virtuous circle rather than the other way around. Thank you for the work you're doing.

Dr. Whitman, in your opening statement, you talked about moral injury. If you could, tease out for me a bit more of the distinction between moral injury and PTSI or PTSD. Could you touch on that a bit?

Thank you.

[Shelly Whitman]

For sure.

PTSD is a fear-based trauma response, whereas moral injury stems from violating the core moral values that you may hold or experiencing profound betrayal. There's a difference here in how it presents and how to provide treatment. Part of a challenge we have is that PTSD is well recognized and diagnosed, therefore there are treatments that have been given, but they haven't been sufficient to address that moral degradation and those core values.

With this, what's important to recognize is that many veterans might have both PTSD and moral injury, but the distinction and the necessity to provide adequate supports and treatments is often not there, and we need more of that to occur.

A really good way to talk about this so people understand it is that PTSD is like someone saying, “I almost died,” and with moral injury they're saying, “I wish I had died.”

Thank you for that.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you.

Madame Gaudreau is next. Again, make sure you have the earpiece.

Ms. Gaudreau, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Whitman and Ms. Reeves, I’d really like you to send us the highlights of your research and especially the description.

Perhaps you have some recommendations to make. I’m a social psychologist, and I realize that there’s some traceability. So as not to leave the children of veterans behind, for example, a specific time in their lives is chosen to check on how they’re doing. The same applies to veterans. If you have such documentation, we’ll obviously add it to our report, since we don’t want to be reactive, but rather recognize what needs to be done to prevent any more suicides.

Thank you very much. I’ll give you the minute I have left if you want to finish up.

[Shelly Whitman]

Kathryn, would you like to respond?

[Kathryn Reeves]

Thank you so much for the extra time.

I think the biggest desire among military-connected families is recognition from VAC that they also, in many ways, have served their country and deserve support for and awareness of the ways they have served.

We have seen this desire echoed in participants who are veterans themselves. Their families have been deeply impacted. They see this, and they are deeply wounded and additionally injured by the lack of help they can get their families.

Addressing this is something that needs to be a big concern for many people.

[Shelly Whitman]

Could I also add something?

I want to mention moral injury. There are preventative measures that can be taken, and that's why training, policy approaches and preparation beforehand could go a long way towards reducing the impact of this on the next generation as well.

I just wanted to highlight that.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

That's perfect.

Thank you very much.

This will conclude the rounds of questions.

To the witnesses, I want to say thank you very much for joining us today and, certainly, for participating and engaging on this very important subject.

I will now suspend so I can greet you properly. I want to wish you all a merry Christmas, happy new year and happy holidays.

Thank you very much.

[Proceedings continue in camera]