Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 9th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 18 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to the motion adopted on September 18, 2025, the committee is meeting as part of its study on barriers to entrepreneurship among veterans.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members can attend in person in the room or remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we continue, I would ask all in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, including the interpreters.

To ensure that the meeting goes smoothly, I would like to outline a few rules for the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. Please mute yourself when you aren't speaking.

For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

Finally, I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

As for members on Zoom, I don't think we have any, so we will proceed.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses.

As an individual, we have Jocelyn Démétré, president of Hero Lodge.

Hello, Mr. Démétré.

From the Canadian Legacy Project, we have Mr. David Howard, president and chief executive officer, by video conference.

Each of our witnesses and members of the organizations represented at this meeting will be given five minutes to deliver their opening remarks. Once all witnesses have spoken, we will proceed to a round of questions with the members of the committee.

Mr. Démétré, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jocelyn Démétré, President, Hero Lodge, As an Individual]

I'd like to begin by introducing myself. My name is Jocelyn Démétré and I am a retired infantry captain. I am a former member of the Royal 22nd Regiment and father of three members of the military.

I would like to thank my wife for being here today. She is also the mother of those three brave soldiers. I would also like to thank MP Marie‑Hélène Gaudreau for allowing me to participate in this committee. I really appreciate it. In addition, I would like to thank Veterans Affairs Canada, VAC, for all the services provided to me. I have always felt supported, and I'm not sure whether there is anything else they could have done to help. A big thank you.

Once I returned from my mission, I went through some dark years. I had difficulty letting go, lacked patience, sought adrenaline, suffered from insomnia and hyper-vigilance, had an overly rigid approach, experienced suicidal thoughts and, above all, felt an overwhelming inner emptiness. This inner emptiness, which I refer to as my dark passenger, is undoubtedly the greatest challenge for a combat veteran. Numbing this feeling of emptiness is still a daily struggle. Unfortunately, many veterans choose to feed this emptiness with drugs, alcohol, excessive food, impulsive purchases, gambling and so on. Too often, these choices lead to isolation, depression and suicide. As a way to fill this emotional void, or feed the beast, I chose fishing, hunting and the outdoors.

To help my brothers in arms choose the same escape routes, we founded Hero Lodge 12 years ago. It is a refuge located on Great Slave Lake in the Northwest Territories. It works. Hero Lodge will be entering its 13th season next year. We have welcomed several hundred veterans and active members of the CAF. Several articles have been written about it.

Despite attempts to receive financial assistance to pay for part of the ongoing operations and infrastructure upgrades and maintenance, we have never received any financial assistance from VAC. For example, on two occasions we have requested financial assistance to improve accessibility for people with reduced mobility. Hero Lodge is located on the Canadian Shield. The site is rugged and requires a certain level of physical fitness. We are therefore unable to accept all veterans who wish to travel north of the 60th parallel to experience Hero Lodge and go on a trip to catch giant fish with their brothers and sisters in arms.

Having the necessary assistance to help us apply for programs would be a game changer. I have some question about how grants are awarded, as it seems unfair to me. Just trying to meet with staff and talk to them is nearly impossible. Climate change is having an incredible impact on our operations. We need help to deal with it. I still finance part of the operations through the sale of my book Sunray 21, and I'm having trouble making ends meet. Every year, we ask ourselves whether we'll be able to continue.

In addition, I receive calls from people referred by VAC, including several indigenous veterans, who are all surprised to learn that Hero Lodge is not subsidized by VAC. Knowing that they have to pay for the Hero Lodge experience, many decide not to go. I have received several comments that our shelter model is perfectly suited to indigenous veterans, and I agree 100%. Receiving financial assistance that would help us welcome first nations people to Hero Lodge would make a big difference.

Thank you for listening, and I look forward to answering your questions more spontaneously. I chose to read my comments to avoid forgetting anything or losing my train of thought, and despite being bilingual, I chose to speak in my first language so my remarks would be as effective as possible, if you know what I mean. Anglophone MPs can feel free to ask questions in English; I have no problem with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Mr. Démétré, thank you for your contribution and for all you have done for us and for Canada.

I would like to now pass the floor to Mr. David Howard for five minutes, please.

[David Howard, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Legacy Project]

Good afternoon.

Thank you for this opportunity. I much appreciate it.

My name is David Howard. I founded the Homes for Heroes Foundation, which is a supportive initiative for homeless veterans, and the Canadian Legacy Project, which is a volunteer-run charity providing free programs to aid veterans in their transition to civilian life.

One of our key initiatives at the Canadian Legacy Project is the business boot camp. It's an entrepreneurial training program delivered online four times a year to over 40 veterans per session. Since its inception, we've graduated over 300 veterans. With the program now heading into its sixth year in 2026, the course is led by two university professors from Mount Royal University.

Graduates leave with a business plan to start their own ventures, and they gain access to a network of veteran-run businesses for ongoing support. Additionally, we offer annual grants totalling $30,000, available to graduates who demonstrate their business success, plans for utilizing the funds, commitment to hiring veteran employees and contributions to their community.

Our program is the only one of its kind offered for free in Canada. In contrast, the University of Ottawa offers a similar program for $5,000, and six years of service are required in order for Veterans Affairs Canada to cover that fee.

Though there are few coding and programming tech courses, no other free entrepreneurial program like ours exists, and we have not yet received VAC funding for assistance.

We also developed an online resource called shopveteran.ca, where veteran-owned businesses can list their services for marketing and network with fellow veterans. It's promoted to the Canadian public to support veteran entrepreneurs.

As an entrepreneur at heart, I've always pursued opportunities that inspired me, which led me to establish the two veteran charities, Homes for Heroes and the Canadian Legacy Project. Starting a business can be challenging for anyone, but military veterans face unique issues due to their experiences and background.

I want to outline some common challenges veterans might encounter when venturing into entrepreneurship.

One is transitioning skills. Veterans often possess strong leadership, discipline and teamwork skills. However, translating military skills into the business world can be difficult. Some may struggle to understand how their experiences apply to civilian contacts and business operations. As an example, a veteran who led a unit into combat may have excellent decision-making skills but find it challenging to apply these skills in a corporate structure or managing day-to-day business.

Two is access to funding. Securing financing can be a significant hurdle. Veterans might face challenges in obtaining loans or investments, especially if they lack a robust credit history, business experience or a clear business plan. As an example, a veteran might have a brilliant idea for a tech start-up but be denied funding due to insufficient collateral or previous business experience.

Three is understanding the market. Veterans might have limited experience understanding the market dynamics, customer behaviour and competitive analysis needed to start up a successful business. As an example, a veteran wanting to open a retail shop may not have the marketing experience necessary to reach and engage potential customers.

Four is mental health challenges. Many veterans face psychological issues such as PTSD, anxiety or depression, which can affect their ability to manage stress, make decisions, or engage with customers or employees. As an example, a veteran with PTSD might find networking or public speaking daunting, which could hinder business development efforts, but their leadership and organizational skills might make them a great fit to be an entrepreneur.

Five is isolation and support networks. Transitioning from a military to a civilian career can lead to feelings of isolation. Veterans may miss the camaraderie and support they had in the military, making it harder to seek help or build a robust professional network. As an example, a veteran may have difficulty reaching out for mentorship opportunities, feeling disconnected from the business community. Our shopveteran.ca program has been a lifesaver for some.

Six is navigating regulations. Understanding the legal and regulatory landscape is complicated for any entrepreneur. However, veterans may struggle more with this due to their previous reliance on structured military protocols. As an example, a veteran may be unsure how to comply with local business regulations, zoning laws or tax requirements, leading to potential legal issues.

Last is time management. Veterans transitioning to business ownership might find it challenging to balance the demands of starting a new venture with personal responsibilities and adjusting to civilian routines. For example, juggling family commitments while developing a business plan can be overwhelming.

We do have some ideas—

Pardon me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

How about if we try to wrap this up within 20 seconds, and then we'll open the floor for questioning?

[David Howard]

Sure, of course.

Just in review, the top five challenges facing veteran entrepreneurs are entrepreneurial training, funding, isolation, mental health and marketing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I sincerely apologize, sir. I will have to say, I'm the clock-keeper here as chair, so I apologize very much for interrupting you. I'm sure that throughout the questions we'll have a chance for you to express further comments.

On this, I would like to open the floor to Mr. Tolmie for six minutes.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you to our witnesses for your interventions. We do appreciate it. It's a bit of a change of pace from what we've been studying recently. Once we start a new program, there's a bit of a transition, so a couple of my questions may include a little of what we just previously studied, but it is going to incorporate what you're dealing with, so if you're okay with that, I would appreciate your perspective.

Captain Démétré of the 22 Van Doos: Is that correct?

[Jocelyn Démétré]

Yes.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Yes, okay.

In our suicide prevention study, this committee identified a kind of transition blind spot for when you come out of the military. There's a bit of a gap where we have military members who are part of a cohesive group, you know, by unit, squad or battalion. Then they get out, and they have nothing. It's a dangerous period when veterans lose their military peer support before connecting with VAC services, so there is a challenge there.

Is there a similar entrepreneurship blind spot that happens? When veterans release, are they informed that entrepreneurship is a viable career option, or do they discover programs like yours only months or years after struggling with traditional employment?

[Jocelyn Démétré]

As I understand it, Veterans Affairs Canada doesn't really connect veterans who need care with organizations like mine.

We had to promote ourselves through the book. The book has been a big help. In a way, we have become a bucket-list stop for the fishing world, because we are on Great Slave Lake. We advertise by word of mouth. Now, people from the soldier on program and the Quebec Veterans Foundation come to visit us. The news has spread.

However, it would be good to have more financial assistance so we could accommodate more veterans, especially those with reduced mobility. It is virtually impossible for us to accommodate them at this time. We have had some, such as Marc, who lost both his legs to an explosive device in Afghanistan. You can see his photo on the first page of the document I provided to the committee. However, it is very challenging for our team to welcome these people.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay. I thank you for clarifying, but I want to be absolutely specific.

The requests that you're making to VAC are for accessibility. It's for veterans to be able to come and participate. It's not like a handout that you're looking for. It's not to improve your business model.

Can you explain that a bit?

[Jocelyn Démétré]

My personal dream is for Hero Lodge to become an entirely charitable endeavour. I have no desire to profit from it. I am not in it for the money.

The problem is that two-by-fours have to be flown into the Northwest Territories. Everything is sent by air. A piece of wood costs $10. Financial assistance from Veterans Affairs Canada to build wooden walkways would allow us to welcome people with reduced mobility, such as people in wheelchairs or people who have lost one or both legs.

An artillery sergeant contacted us last year. He was severely affected by Parkinson's disease. We had to turn him down because we don't have the right facilities. It would have been dangerous for him. It broke my heart not to be able to accommodate him.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay.

I'm running out of time just as we get in more questions, so I just want a brief answer from you.

You said to me that you and your wife are personally funding this from your own pocket right now.

[Jocelyn Démétré]

Yes, sir.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay, thank you. That's disappointing, but I want to say thank you for your generosity and your heart. That shows a lot.

Mr. Howard, the Liberal government talks about supporting veterans, but there's no veteran-owned business certification in Canada. There are no procurement preferences, and there's minimal entrepreneurship funding. Is this a blind spot, or are they simply not prioritizing veterans' economic success?

[David Howard]

I think it's a blind spot. We've been operating our program for the last six years. We're the only one of its kind. We're self-funded. We're funded by corporations. We're funded by individuals.

We've graduated 300 veterans through our program, so there are 300 businesses that have come through our program, started themselves, bootstrapped themselves. We have now created a network for them through shopveteran.ca. It's something that's required. The training and the support need to be there.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you for your answer. I think I'm out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Congratulations.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I'm very impressed.

Mrs. Hirtle, you have six minutes.

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you both for being here today. I would like to address Mr. Howard.

I want to start by acknowledging the nearly two decades of invaluable work the Canadian Legacy Project has done and continues to do with respect to addressing the transition to civilian life of Canada's veterans. Likewise, I acknowledge Homes For Heroes, which I can imagine has come up against a range of challenges in getting things done. I spent the last decade before becoming a parliamentarian at a community futures program in Nova Scotia. I helped hundreds of people start small businesses, but I had very few veterans come through the door. I was quite pleased to be able to sponsor this study and hear how we can make things better.

In your experience, Mr. Howard, does the average veteran recognize in themselves the potential for entrepreneurialism, or is that something they aren't considering? Let's start there.

[David Howard]

Well, yes, I think we have a bulk of veterans, I would say 50%, who consider the idea of entering a business concept, an idea. What happens traditionally is our professors meet with all individuals one on one. They walk them through the stages of becoming an entrepreneur and the difficulties and barriers they might have. Right away, we're finding that there are some students, some vets, who decide that maybe this isn't the right path for them, and then there are others who join the program and go through the program to create a business plan and start a business.

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Great. Have you observed any pattern of officers or those in the trades being more likely to want to start their own business? Does any kind of a security clearance or field experience affect their ability to enter a field at perhaps a more exclusive level?

[David Howard]

If you're asking whether there are certain industries we see that are major growth areas, we see a wide range, from people starting medical clinics to helping seniors or doing construction or roofing. If you go to shopveteran.ca, you'll see hundreds of businesses across the country, started by vets from every single different type of industry.