Evidence of meeting #20 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was business.
A video is available from Parliament.
Founder, Green Army Coffee
It is quite frustrating to have someone take it because I decided to go out and make a few bucks.
Liberal
Liberal
Chris d'Entremont Liberal Acadie—Annapolis, NS
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mr. Mitic and Mr. McNish, again, thank you so much for your service. Thank you so much for being here today to help us try to unravel a little bit of the questions we have on entrepreneurship and Veterans Affairs.
When you spoke of your business, you talked about the fact that you already had the business, in a way. You were already doing some brewing, probably, with your son prior to your retirement. Did that make it easier or harder? By the sound of it, it made it a little harder.
I find that a lot of military members actually have a little bit of a side gig. Some have a second job. Some have a little business. My brother had a little store that he was running in Petawawa when he was there. How often does this happen? Did it cause a bit of a challenge in your transition?
Co-Owner, Dog House Brewing Company Ltd.
Personally, it didn't create a challenge. It actually helped the transition. It was 100% helpful, because I had something to go to. I have friends right now who are sitting in Petawawa and are scared to release from the Canadian Forces because they don't know what they're going to do with themselves. If you give them that olive branch, that opportunity, they will take it. It's more than just them.
It 100% helped me.
Liberal
Chris d'Entremont Liberal Acadie—Annapolis, NS
Is it something we should be conscious of during service, or is it something we bring up during transition? During service, I know that a lot of things are concentrated towards the mission, or the duties you have on base, or whether you get a ship to forward to, or whatever it is. Would it be advantageous to have some kind of entrepreneurship programming for military members?
Co-Owner, Dog House Brewing Company Ltd.
Yes. If there's access to something.... I don't want them to have to sit through more computer-based training, but if they're voluntarily looking for that, I think it should be before the transition starts. When the transition starts once they make that decision—they wake up on a Friday morning in June and say, “That's it, I'm done, I feel it”, and write the memo—I think that should already be in place. They have something to go to. They don't have to worry about transitioning, trying to figure out their life post and then trying to learn about or get educated on entrepreneurship. Not everybody's an entrepreneur, 100%. Some people want to be re-educated. That is perfectly fine, but I think the ones who are really, really interested in entrepreneurship should have that opportunity for training or some kind of development before they make that transition decision.
Liberal
Chris d'Entremont Liberal Acadie—Annapolis, NS
Your suggestions, which I wrote down quickly as you were making your points, include recognizing entrepreneurship; a dedicated entrepreneurship program; enhancing internal literacy within VAC on what entrepreneurship actually is and providing flexibility with transition. You also talked about timing and how long the transition might happen. Red tape reduction is the last. There's a lot of red tape involved in this.
You didn't talk about access to capital or maybe networking or some of those other items. Where would you like to see some of these things plugged in?
Co-Owner, Dog House Brewing Company Ltd.
I think if there's access to funding on a specific stream, that would be highly helpful. I believe I did mention veteran-specific mentorship. Like Mr. Mitic, I went through what was then the Prince’s Trust entrepreneur camp and is now the King's Trust. They don't work with veterans anymore, unfortunately. That program was outstanding. I did follow on with a mentorship there, but those mentors aren't veterans. They don't understand. To be perfectly honest with you, they're very good people, but some of them who are volunteering are looking to check a box on their résumé. They're helpful to an extent, but they don't understand our challenges. They don't understand who we are or where we've been.
Liberal
Chris d'Entremont Liberal Acadie—Annapolis, NS
I would probably have some more questions for Mr. Mitic, but I don't have enough time. I see the chair cutting me off.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you very much. You may get that star today, Mr. d'Entremont.
Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I'll go back to my question, Mr. McNish and Mr. Mitic. It's fundamental, and you just mentioned it: I need to be supported at the end of my service, but not by just anyone, especially not by a computer. I need someone who can understand what I went through during all my years of service to help me transition to civil society and to support me for as long as I need.
There are other issues, including administrative and monetary issues, but are we on the right track? I would like to hear your comments, but I have only a minute and a few seconds left.
Mr. McNish, go ahead.
Co-Owner, Dog House Brewing Company Ltd.
Yes, I believe so. I believe veteran-centric programming, with veteran people who know the background, would be very helpful—not forced on individuals but as an opportunity for them to voluntarily look at it and be taught in it.
Founder, Green Army Coffee
Yes, of course, anything that would help someone transition would be extremely useful. I understand there are other demographics in the world and things like that, but as veterans of the Canadian Armed Forces, we are a particular group of people. The biggest thing would be to try to support it and encourage it, if we can. That would be my basic comment.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I saved some time, but I am still concerned because I don't have the screen in front of me. I am thinking of Mr. McNish. It is appalling. It's flashing and it is distracting. I'm wondering if the technical team can turn it off, especially since there's also interpretation. I don't know how people are keeping up, but perhaps the screen should be turned off.
I'm done.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you, Ms. Gaudreau.
We'll have the technical team look into that. Thank you for your concern for the witnesses. We really appreciate it.
I would now like to pass the floor to Mr. Viersen for five minutes.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to thank our witnesses for being here.
It's an interesting thing that entrepreneurship over the last decade has plummeted from about three people per 1,000 to one per 1,000. Do you think some of the challenges you're facing are perhaps kind of what the whole country is facing in terms of entrepreneurship challenges and not necessarily specific to veterans? What would be a particularly veteran challenge? It's an interesting thing that the CBC is reporting that entrepreneurship is down quite a bit over the last 10 years.
Mr. McNish.
Co-Owner, Dog House Brewing Company Ltd.
For the veteran specifically, there is no programming for them. They're not going to take that leap unless they have some kind of backing or other kind of support. For the average individual going through the transition centre on any base or garrison in Canada, that's not an option for them. That blocks them out.
Unless they had started something previously with their spouse, so that they could be employed...I don't know. I don't think it's just veteran specific for that particular statistic, but there is no support out there directly for veterans to increase that statistic either.
Founder, Green Army Coffee
I would echo what Richard just said. I think it's fair to say that everyone is in the same boat, veterans included. For me, the fact is that we're here to discuss the future of veterans. Regardless of what challenges veterans may be facing in entrepreneurship or anything, it's beneficial for Veterans Affairs to seek ways to help us achieve and be successful regardless of anything else, because that's a success story. Richard's business being around for however many years, that's success. My company, once we get going, will be a VAC success story, a veteran success story and so on.
The barriers to entrepreneurship getting higher might just be an indication of the overall picture in the country. As far as veterans are concerned, you give us a little bit of support and you watch us fly. We're a pretty resilient group of folks.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
To me, doing comparisons with other countries, such as Australia and the United States—you may have a perspective on this as well—it just feels like particularly in the United States, veteran-owned business is a big.... You hear that all the time. It feels like the banks seem to have a dedicated program for veterans down there.
Do you see that in the United States? What's your experience dealing with Canadian banking? I know that if you have a university degree, that will lower your interest rate and things like that. Does being a veteran do something similar, or is that something the whole system fails to recognize?
I'll go to Mr. Mitic first and then Mr. McNish.
Founder, Green Army Coffee
I would say that the Americans have it figured out. They take care of their troops. They take care of their veterans through the banks, through associations, community charities and the whole gamut. They take care of each other very well.
As for ourselves, I'm not saying Canadians don't take care of us, but we do have our challenges. As I said, I originally went to my bank. I went to BDC. I went to a few other places. No one had a veteran-specific lending program, so to speak. I approached a few not-for-profits or charities, and it was, you know, a wishy-washy situation: What if the business fails?
