Evidence of meeting #30 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lot.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
That's a good business plan. That's very good.
Also, Mr. Pittman, you mentioned that fear of losing those benefits. How high of a priority do you think it should be for this study to come up with a recommendation that the government would accept—because that's the main part there—that basically removes that apprehension for you?
Owner, Punisher Waterfowl
The very first thing, right off the bat, is this: I think one of the most important things to come out of this committee would be eliminating that $20,000 ceiling veterans can earn. It doesn't have to be only for veteran entrepreneurs. Why should we be limiting somebody who's trying to make themselves...and provide for their family? There should not be a limit.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
I appreciate that.
When I was a brand new member serving on this committee in my first year, many years ago, I was in a situation where I met with veterans from service. This individual's dad had passed away. He decided to join because his mom and eight siblings needed support. When Veterans Affairs found out that he was giving his money to his mother, they lowered his wages. This is systemic to some degree. Obviously, this shows a lack of appreciation and contributes, somewhat, to sanctuary trauma.
Would you agree with that?
Owner, Punisher Waterfowl
I do, 100%. One of the biggest stressors and something I think anybody in this room would agree with is that, as a family man—a husband or father—I have a responsibility to my family first and foremost. If I have a fear that I'm going to start losing my pension dollar for dollar, it's a major hurdle. That's not even a hurdle. That's a brick wall.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
I really appreciate that. Thank you.
I want to make sure I heard this clearly: You were speaking in regard to losing that because your business is excelling, but you're broadening it out to the fact that a veteran who.... They're facing the challenges that everybody is facing in this economy. If they were to drive an Uber or do something else to try to help their family out, it would be impacted as well.
Owner, Punisher Waterfowl
Absolutely. It's not just entrepreneurs. It's any veteran.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you very much, Mr. Pittman. I appreciate it.
Ms. Rochefort for five minutes.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Good day and thank you, Madam Chair.
Quickly, I would like to congratulate the committee. It is my first time joining the committee, and I'm impressed that we are discussing this particular issue.
Mr. Prince, I want to mention that in my riding, there are a few companies that specialize in equine-assisted therapy for veterans who suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome. They are equally well received. It's an important service in our riding. Congratulations on your work and on having found a formula that works, given the current context of our discussing the $20,000 cap.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
In fact, I simply have one question. I'd like to direct it to all three panel members, but I will start with Mr. Pittman.
This is to understand the background on that $20,000. I don't know if this was discussed previously in the committee. I'm not sure. I was wondering how they established $20,000 as a cap on additional revenue beyond your pension.
Mr. Pittman.
Owner, Punisher Waterfowl
Thank you for the question.
The easiest answer is one we use in the military quite a lot: The answer to that question is way above my pay grade.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
I'm sure you would have gone forth and discussed this particular issue with members of the military and within the government.
What response is provided when you've raised this particular issue?
Owner, Punisher Waterfowl
In my personal experience, it's been, “That's just the way it is.” There isn't one.
The majority of veterans are talking to a Veterans Affairs case manager or someone in the pension department at a low level. We're not talking to decision-makers. We have no idea. We are never given a reason as to why there's a limit. That's across the board for all veterans. It doesn't matter what your income, rank or element was—none of that stuff.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Thank you for that response.
I'll go to Mr. Apollon.
As you've brought forward programming at the University of Ottawa, have you had any discussions with Veterans Affairs or any other members of the military or government in regard to the $20,000 cap?
Program Director, Mission Entrepreneur Program, Professional Development Institute, University of Ottawa
No, not in regard to the $20,000 cap. My understanding is that every veteran receives training and education benefits that can go up to $80,000.
I had a lot of executive M.B.A. students at the University of Ottawa who were veterans who completed their executive M.B.A. through that funding. We have requested funding through that specific program, and they put us under a short course for $5,000, instead of the $20,000 we were requesting.
I'm not familiar with the $20,000 cap, but it sounds unfair.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
I'll finish with Mr. Prince.
You've obviously found a formula to tackle this particular issue. Have you had any prior discussions on the why for the $20,000 cap? What was the response?
Co-Founder and Facilitator, FNV Ranch Ltd.
The formula I was referred to was start a corporation and then have that corporation.... The corporation can make as much money as it needs to make. Of course, you pay yourself out of the corporation up to $20,000 so that you're not penalized by VAC within that $20,000.
As Mr. Pittman said, it's a militaryism. It's $20,000 because we've always done it that way. To me, that's an unacceptable response, but the response I've gotten is, “Well, it's always been $20,000, so that's the way it is.”
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Thank you.
Those are all the questions for me, Madam Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you very much, Ms. Rochefort.
To conclude this round of questions, I will give the floor to Ms. Gaudreau for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Apollon, I'd like to take this opportunity to give you some time to finish up. In your opening remarks, you ran out of time to give us some very specific recommendations, and I'd appreciate it if you could provide them to us.
Program Director, Mission Entrepreneur Program, Professional Development Institute, University of Ottawa
I'll return to my recommendations. There are only two more recommendations I'd like to present. I've already presented recommendations regarding mentoring, education and access to capital. I'd now like to present the recommendation to foster public procurement.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Madam Chair, this has happened about ten times now. I'm stopping my timer now.
You're going to tell me it's because of the French, but why do we hear noise every time someone speaks French? There's whispering, and it distracts me. I hear everything, and I understand English. I can understand that there are English speakers who don't understand French, but I hear everything. It bothers me. I just wanted to say that, Madam Chair, because at some point, this has to stop.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
I would ask all members of the committee to be respectful when someone is asking questions or addressing a witness. Thank you very much.
Ms. Gaudreau, you may continue. You have 1 minute and 52 seconds remaining, as indicated by the timer I have paused here in front of me.