Evidence of meeting #31 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pcvrs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, Veterans Transition Network
I can do my best. We would like a review of whether proven, established service providers are being excluded from veteran referrals because they have been designated as out-of-network providers. That's what we're requesting.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you very much, Mr. Thorne.
We will now go to Madame Gaudreau.
You have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you very much.
This week, I asked the minister whether an independent investigation was required before automatically renewing the contract for six years. The ultimate goal is to ensure that the services delivered are exactly what veterans need.
That said, time is racing by. You all have expertise. I don't know what your workload is, but we are here to listen. I will ask you to answer my questions in turn, starting with you, Mr. Thorne.
If we had to change just one thing as a priority, what would it be?
What do we need to do now before we get the investigation results and get PCVRS back on track?
Chief Executive Officer, Veterans Transition Network
I think any policy changes that relate to an increase in the accessibility and the range of choice that veterans have in the programs they can access would be good, and that's input from the veterans, not only from their rehab specialists.
Bloc
Manager, Clinical Services, Broken Squirrel Wellness Ltd.
It would be access to care. Being in a small community, we see a very high volume of veterans. We do our best as a small team to support as many as we can. We are also in a community that has expert, incredible clinicians. We have clinicians these veterans are already attached to, where a therapeutic relationship and trust have been developed, and it is critical in health care to keep those relationships. Opening it up beyond just specific clinics and specific providers, then, is going to eliminate the number of veterans who are considered to go into gap while they are awaiting services and waiting for our caseloads to come down.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Massunken, do you have anything to add?
Clinical Director, Mindspa Mental Health Centre Corp.
Yes, I would echo much of that. I think in addition to the access piece, there's the piece about flexibility: When it comes to assessments, are they required all the time, or are there flexibilities around what that might look like for individuals?
In addition to flexibility, I would say accessibility, and what that looks like for individuals entering the program.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you.
In our last round, we'll go three minutes and three minutes, to stay respectful of the other panel.
Mrs. DeRidder now has the floor for three minutes.
Conservative
Kelly DeRidder Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Ms. Scharf, I'll start with you on the first question.
Was it easier to intake veterans who need support before or after the implementation of this program, and what has changed?
Manager, Clinical Services, Broken Squirrel Wellness Ltd.
I have been with our clinic for two years. I was not working as the manager before the PCVRS contract was taken on, so I can't speak to that.
I can say that currently it is a lengthy process from the time of receiving a referral to veterans being connected to the supports that they need. It is a big administrative process for the reporting that the clinicians have to do. There are also certain parameters around the referral-booking process of how a psychologist, physician and physiotherapist need to be coordinated with respect to the schedules of a clinical team. Being able to meet the parameters can sometimes cause delays in the assessment process. That's kind of what—
Conservative
Kelly DeRidder Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I think that paints a clear picture. It's quite a complicated process.
I'll go to Oliver now.
Just quickly, what is your intake process?
Chief Executive Officer, Veterans Transition Network
Sorry, are you asking about our intake process for clients, or specifically in dealing with PCVRS and funding approvals?
Chief Executive Officer, Veterans Transition Network
Our intake assessment process is fairly simple. It's designed to be accessible.
First there would be a conversation with one of our program coordinators. That would be with a local program coordinator in their region to talk about the contents of the program and if they feel that it's a good fit.
If the veteran is interested and motivated to attend a program, they then do an intake assessment with the clinician psychologist who'll be running that program. It typically takes about 45 to 60 minutes over the phone, and that's it.
Conservative
Kelly DeRidder Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Then I'm going to ask you something, Oliver, because you have a lot of experience working with veterans struggling with crisis and injuries.
Do you believe adding this complicated bureaucratic process has been counterproductive to helping veterans who are suffering, as it stands today without implementing change?
Chief Executive Officer, Veterans Transition Network
I can speak only to the specific veterans we serve and interact with, but I would say it has been counterproductive thus far, yes. We're seeing an increase in confusion, an increase in the burden of assessments on veterans, and a decrease in the choice and autonomy that they have in their care plan.
Conservative
Kelly DeRidder Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I have a very quick question—just a follow-up, then—because you believe it has been counterproductive. Do you think forcing veterans to change service providers after they've found a service provider they trust can actually cause more damage?
Chief Executive Officer, Veterans Transition Network
One hundred per cent. Once again, trust is one of the biggest issues, the biggest challenges, for veterans coming forward and seeking help. We've heard from other witnesses about the stigma, the fear—the fear of being misunderstood, of not having their experiences and their culture understood—so yes, changing is bad.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you very much, Mr. Thorne.
For three minutes we go to Mr. d'Entremont.
Liberal
Chris d'Entremont Liberal Acadie—Annapolis, NS
I'm just trying to get some numbers to figure out how many veterans we are helping. The whole idea of this study is to understand the responsibilities of PCVRS.
Quite honestly, how many veterans are we actually helping? How many are coming for help? How many are we helping, and how many of them are running into problems? To try to understand that challenge, maybe I'll just go through our witnesses today.
Mr. Scharf, how many veterans are you helping? How many are in your group, and how many of them are coming in with challenges with PCVRS?
Manager, Clinical Services, Broken Squirrel Wellness Ltd.
Offhand, I can share that we have 23 folks who are currently in our interdisciplinary rehab program. One of our occupational therapists, on top of that, has a caseload of 20 single-service occupational therapy clients. Our physiotherapist has around 20 physiotherapy clients as well. That's just three of them off the bat.
I would say that the majority of folks coming in are expressing frustration with a lack of clarity on the direction they're headed in and what the next steps are, and are having challenges with the self-advocacy for the administrative pieces and having to do these parts on their own. We do our best to support them through that and be that bridge between them and PCVRS to soften that burden as much as we can, so that they can focus on their care.
Liberal
Chris d'Entremont Liberal Acadie—Annapolis, NS
Thank you.
Mr. Thorne, it's kind of the same question, even though I know you have a larger group of veterans you have been working with for a very long time.
Chief Executive Officer, Veterans Transition Network
We serve about 220 to 250 veterans a year, depending on the number of programs we can deliver. About 2,500 to date have graduated through our programs.
We also consistently hear from the veterans we're working with of challenges in the process of approvals, assessments and options regarding PCVRS.