Evidence of meeting #35 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pcvrs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thank you, Chair.
It's wonderful to be filling in today.
Ms. Forcier, I'll start with you, please.
First of all, like the others, I express my thanks for your service.
Who was providing the service before this current company took over, PCVRS? I think he mentioned that you were moved to them in 2020.
As an Individual
Yes, I started the rehab process with VAC. I had a VAC case manager. They were the ones implementing the rehab process.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Were you ever threatened by VAC, told you'd be taken off the program for non-compliance?
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Have you heard of any other veterans being threatened by VAC, told that they would be moved off the program if they were not co-operating with services chosen by VAC?
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
One of the two groups that own PCVRS is APM, which owns WCG. It has a reputation in a foreign country for similarly threatening their customers or clients, as you've allegated today. Were you aware of that? Is that a concern?
As an Individual
It is. Working with vets, we oftentimes feel like we're treated like cash cows, like we're a financial benefit to a company. A lot of times, when everybody's providers have to be switched to Lifemark, there's a question or at least the understanding or perception that it's basically so they keep the funding within their organization. An external company that is basically manhandling our rehab is a financial institution. Then it comes back to this. We feel like cash cows or a financial benefit to a company that's not necessarily delivering the best care.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
The program is coming up for renewal. Are you concerned that these two companies, APM, which is, I guess, part owner, and then Lifemark, which is with Loblaw and Shoppers, have lobbied this government over 300 times in the last few years, and specifically, WCG lobbied 12 times in the last year?
As an Individual
Yes, that would be a concern. From what I was told, and this is just the veteran community talking, PCVRS had already gotten approved for the renewed contract. Despite this conversation that we're having now, they're still moving forward with the company that isn't necessarily delivering the best care to our veterans.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
It appears that WCG and Lifemark, through their lobbyists, have a stronger voice with the government and better access to VAC than veterans themselves.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems a bit off to me. Veterans haven't had the opportunity to chime in on this service, but lobbyists seem to be able to get access to VAC and this government.
As an Individual
There's definitely a concern that is felt throughout our community.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I find it incredibly troubling.
You mentioned non-compliance with their recommendations. Who is deciding if you're not compliant with what they are directing?
As an Individual
Not that I'm aware of. I struggled to apply for vocational rehab. I had issues with applying for university. I was given two weeks' notice before the university program started that I was approved. I was basically put on hold, since I wasn't able to get onto the program, because it only starts once a year. This is where I got threatened to get kicked off the program, because I wasn't in university as was expected of me.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Have they ever provided justification to you or any other veterans that you're aware of about how they're choosing certain providers?
As an Individual
No, not at all. I've had some veterans who are struggling because they've finally built trust in a relationship and feel like they're personally making progress with their psychologist, and then they're being told that they have to switch. I just advise them to ask for something in writing. The case manager will flat out say, “There's nothing in writing, but you will comply.”
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
That's very disturbing, especially given that one of the companies involved, which, with Loblaw and Shoppers, received quite a bit of push-back when they were taking government money for a program but directing it only through Manulife. Here, the government pays, but is directing it only through Shoppers, so they would be the only people who could provide the service. I'm not sure if there's any direct overlap, but it seems very disturbing.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I thank you for your time and your honesty today.
Thank you, sir.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Blake Richards
We'll go to our last round of questions for this hour of our meeting. We are going to have Ms. Hirtle for the next five minutes.
Liberal
Alana Hirtle Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for being here today and for your service.
I'd like to circle back to Mr. Slingerland for one moment.
I'm wondering if you would expand on something that you started with MP Royer's questioning. In your experience, what safeguards should exist in the scenario of working broadly with a veteran, so that intake assessment and reporting requirements do not cause any additional undue harm?