House of Commons Hansard #3 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was quebec.

Topics

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Chrétien Liberal Saint-Maurice, QC

The hon. member for Madawaska-Victoria, in New Brunswick, rose in this House to second the motion in reply to the speech from the Throne.

I have had the great honour of being the member for Beauséjour and to rise in this House to represent francophones, francophones from New Brunswick, and Acadians who were deported and who came back. And those one million francophones outside Quebec are part of my country.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Chrétien Liberal Saint-Maurice, QC

The Leader of the Opposition talked about progress and about preparing for the 21st century. I agree with him. I look around this House.

I see these members of different colours, religions and languages who are all members of the same family in my party and of the same country of Canada.

If we know how to capitalize on our strengths and our potential, if we look for new solutions, and if, while facing the tasks awaiting us, we can communicate our hopes and our energy, we will restore the confidence of Canadians in their government. A country which was able to overcome its problems, which is competitive and which becomes more powerful and more independent, is a country which will be a model and an inspiration throughout the world.

In short, what Canadians want is a country to be proud of and to believe in. That is the challenge not only for this government but for this Parliament.

It is in that spirit that I invite the men and women of all parties in this House to join us in this national effort. I invite them to put aside old tactics that have so frustrated and embittered Canadians. I invite them to work with us in improving this country.

I am convinced that the new spirit that men and women elected to this House are bringing with them makes it possible for us to enter a new constructive era together. We all have an obligation to uphold the confidence Canadians have invested in each and every one of us.

Together we can prove that their confidence was not misplaced. Together we can do what every generation of Canadians did when put to the test and that is to meet challenges head on, beat the odds and build the country.

It is our mission to take this country and prepare it for the 21st century, to make sure that we will give our children and our grandchildren this land of freedom, opportunity and justice which is an example to the world. Today, as Prime Minister of this land, I tell everyone that the world needs the understanding, tolerance and justice that this country has been able to prove over the years. For me Canada is and will always be number one.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

Reform

Preston Manning Reform Calgary Southwest, AB

Mr. Speaker, I wish to begin by congratulating you on your election to the office of Speaker and to offer you the co-operation and support of our Reform members.

Canadians made it abundantly clear on October 25, 1993 that they were not pleased with the performance of many members of the 34th Parliament and that they clearly expected a different style of conduct from the members of this Parliament.

As both a member and the presiding officer of this House you have a mandate from the people to encourage a higher standard of behaviour. As a group, we pledge our co-operation with you in discharging that mandate.

I would also like to congratulate all members for their election to the Canadian Parliament, and in particular the right hon. member for Saint-Maurice who was elected prime minister of Canada.

There are several people whose ambition to become prime minister exceeded that of the Right Hon. Jean Chrétien, but very few people have served their country, the House of Commons and the government as faithfully as he has. I think it is important for new members in this House to see that not only ambition, but experience, knowledge and dedication are also rewarded.

A great man once said: He who wants to be a leader must be at the service of others. We would like to congratulate the Right Hon. Jean Chrétien who has become our leader.

Third, I want to especially thank the electors of Calgary Southwest for giving me the opportunity to represent them in this House.

I know from months of town hall meetings, surveys and door knocking that our electors have definite hopes and aspirations for this Parliament. They hope against hope that we will be able to control federal spending and taxation. They hope that we, the members of this Parliament, will be free to represent their interests even if that conflicts with our party line. They hope that we will be capable of giving to all Canadians a fresh and vigorous vision of a new federalism capable of carrying us into the 21st century.

I feel, as I am sure all members feel, an enormous sense of responsibility that we do not frustrate those hopes and aspirations.

I realize-and many of us as new members have been reminded of this on numerous occasions already-that much of the conduct of this Chamber is frequently bound by precedent. However, there is a sense in which the 35th Parliament should consider itself a House beyond precedent.

The reduction of the representation of a traditional federal party in this House from 152 seats to 2 seats is unprecedented in the history of federal politics although this fact does not seem to have registered yet on the member for Sherbrooke. The election of over 200 new members has already been referred to and is also unprecedented. The ideological and geographical alignment of the political parties in this House is also unprecedented.

In other words, in electing this House Canadians themselves have broken with precedent. Therefore we believe it would be fitting that this House also break with precedent in some important areas, especially in the conduct of its own business.

For example, our Reform group does not intend to conduct itself as a traditional opposition party. We feel ourselves bound to rigorously scrutinize everything that the government puts forward but we do not consider ourselves bound to oppose everything that the government puts forward.

In scrutinizing the speech from the throne we will seek to identify and give credit to the measures we consider good. We will also seek to identify and expose those measures that we consider weak or ill-advised but when we do the latter we will feel an obligation not simply to criticize or oppose but to offer constructive alternatives.

We think of this House, which is beyond precedent, as a three-cornered House. There is the government, the Official Opposition whose members wish to take their province out of Canada, and Her Majesty's constructive alternative.

In keeping with this positioning, our principal contribution to the throne speech debate will be threefold. We will analyse the government's program from a variety or perspectives: fiscal, economic and social. We will offer proposals for improving the government's legislative program in the interests of all Canadians and we will put forward a subamendment designed to improve the government's program. The passage of our subamendment should not be viewed as an expression of non-confidence but as a constructive addition which government members themselves could support.

Allow me then to speak for just a moment on the most commendable feature of the speech from the throne, its greatest weakness and a proposed improvement.

We believe that the most commendable feature of the speech from the throne is its promise to enhance the credibility of Parliament. However the objective of any parliamentary reform in our judgment should be to create a freer Parliament, not just a more efficient one, a Parliament where members are free to express and vote the positions of their constituents even when it conflicts with party lines.

Parliamentary reform of course, including this type of reform, has been promised before. Hopefully this government intends to act on its promises. The public is tired of the hollow eloquence of words and longs for the eloquence of deeds.

For example, nothing would enhance the credibility of Parliament more than the institution of genuinely free votes. What we and many Canadians would like to see is for the Prime Minister to rise in his place today or tomorrow and clearly declare to you, Mr. Speaker, the following policy as a policy of his government: That the government will not consider the defeat of a government motion, including a spending measure, to constitute an expression of non-confidence in the government unless it is immediately followed by the passage of a formal non-confidence vote.

That takes about 30 seconds to say. I say to the Prime Minister if he were to do that he would be known as the liberator of Parliament no matter what.

We hope over time that this House and even the media will come to see cross-over voting, the number of times that a member crosses over party lines in the interest of constituents, not as a sign of party weakness or dissension but as a sign of the strength of genuine democracy in this Chamber.

At the beginning of this session we want to commend the government's commitment as contained in the speech from the throne to enhance the credibility of Parliament. We think that is one of the strongest features of its program if it follows through on it.

Allow me to turn to the greatest weakness of the government's legislative program and the area that we feel is most in need of improvement. All members are aware of the fiscal legacy which the previous Conservative administration left to the people of Canada and to the 35th Parliament. The distinguishing features of that legacy are, and this is the bottom line of the fiscal regime of the government that preceded this government, a record federal deficit for 1992-93 of $40.5 billion and a total federal debt as of noon yesterday of $500 billion.

I say to hon. members that the greatest challenge facing this Parliament, whether their commitments are constitutional, social or to jobs, is to control federal overspending. I frankly expected that challenge to be acknowledged and addressed more forcefully and directly in the government's legislative program, not just in a budget two or three months hence.

Traditional throne speeches, and this speech is very traditional, always listed things that governments proposed to do. However the throne speech of a government that is $500 billion in debt ought to contain a new section listing the things that government proposes to stop doing. This speech contains no such section. Perhaps the Minister of Finance was not given equal time in its preparation. It would be vastly improved if it did and if it included such items as the following: a specific commitment to stop the payment of premature and excessive pensions to parliamentarians; a commitment to stop subsidizing crown corporations to the tune of $6 billion per year accompanied by a schedule for the gradual elimination of such subsidies; a commitment to reduce non-salary overheads of government departments and agencies by at least 15 per cent; a commitment to stop paying OAS and other income transfers to high income households; a commitment to stop regional development programs that simply do not work; and a commitment to identify and eliminate all unnecessary government functions.

To remedy this weakness in the government's legislative program, I ask this House to consider restricting its spending in the fiscal year 1994-95 to less than $153 billion by adding a simple spending cap to the government's legislative program.

Members familiar with the government's financial statements will know that the federal government is currently projected to spend $162 billion in 1994-95. The spending cap we propose represents a 6 per cent reduction in that amount. How such a reduction should be made can be the subject of the budget debate and speech. The point of adding the spending cap to the government's legislative program now is to send a signal to investors and taxpayers that in the very first days of this session members on both sides of the House are deadly serious about reducing federal spending.

The subamendment I will propose is an expression of non-confidence in the spending patterns established by the previous government. Is there any member of this House, with perhaps one or two exceptions, who could not vote for that? This amendment or subamendment is not an expression of non-confidence in the government's legislative program. It is a simple improvement which says: Whatever legislative program this House adopts we must not spend more than $153 billion on its implementation in 1994-95. I invite all members of the House including government members to support this spending cap.

In conclusion, yesterday members honoured an ancient parliamentary tradition by following you, Mr. Speaker, to the other place and by listening to the speech from the throne and by claiming all the ancient rights of the Commons in the name of the people. The most important of these ancient rights, indeed the first function of the early British Parliaments, and the first function was not a legislative function, the only function of the original Parliaments was to constrain the spending of the crown.

I implore the members of this House to reassert this right of the Commons, not simply in symbolism or in words but by legislative action, by crowning the speech from the throne with a spending cap.

I move:

That the amendment of the leader of the opposition be amended by adding immediately after the words "federal administration" the following words:

particularly the need to restore public confidence in the ability of this House to control the federal deficit and overspending and to limit the government's spending in the fiscal year 1994-95 to less than $153 billion.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Papineau—Saint-Michel Québec

Liberal

André Ouellet LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, let me first of all congratulate you on your election as Speaker of the House of Commons. Certainly, your experience in Parliament and your qualities of heart and mind contributed to your being chosen by your peers. I am sure that you will assume your responsibilities with great skill and competence and you can certainly count on my support in the performance of your duties.

I would also like to take the opportunity, as is the custom, to congratulate the movers of the motion in reply to the Speech from the Throne. In their own way, they each reflect what Canada is. With their respective knowledge and abilities, they are both a credit to their constituents and have begun a career in the Parliament of Canada in fine style, and I wish to commend them both.

I would also like to take the opportunity to congratulate the Leader of the Opposition, who is not only a friend and a classmate but also a fellow parliamentarian, who in this last federal election had a very important personal success at the polls. Without a doubt, he won part of Quebec opinion over to his party, the Bloc Quebecois, and at any rate his personal success exceeds what we would have wanted to see in Quebec.

In his new responsibilities as a member of the Parliament of Canada, I wish him the wisdom not only to meet his responsibilities to those who sent him here, but also to discharge the role that he must assume as Leader of the Opposition, which goes far beyond his own aspirations and what he would like to do here in the Canadian Parliament. I do not know how he can reconcile this twofold mandate, but I still wish him much success in this task.

I would also like to congratulate the leader of the Reform Party.

I think it is remarkable to see, at the occasion of the federal election, a party which began as a regional party reflecting the legitimate aspirations of the people of a region more or less becoming a national party. I would like to say to its leader at the very beginning of this new Parliament that we used to have representation by three national parties here in the House of Commons that respected the fabric of our institution and of our country, that fought vigorously from time to time for their respective interests but always understood and fought for a bilingual Canada.

I was very pleased to hear the Reform Party leader speaking in French in his first speech in the House of Commons. I think his

party, which in its creation was regional, might have by his leadership the possibility of becoming a true national party. In doing so it would be in the interest of the unity of Canada and the continuity of a strong and united Canada from sea to sea to sea.

Finally, I want to congratulate all those who have been elected in the last election. Our responsibilities as parliamentarians are obviously significant but the most difficult test to pass is sometimes, in fact always, the election test. And everyone here deserves to be congratulated for having passed this test. I for one would like to thank my constituents from Papineau-Saint-Michel who, for the ninth time, have given me their trust and have allowed me to sit again in the Parliament of Canada.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

André Ouellet Liberal Papineau—Saint-Michel, QC

Let me tell you where I stand in relation to the Leader of the Opposition, who speaks with conviction but whose argument in this debate I cannot accept. While he wants to build a new country, I want to improve mine. It appears to me that his approach is as sincere as mine. Like me, he comes from a Quebec rural area; he is from Lac-Saint-Jean, I am from Saint-Pascal-Kamouraska, in the Lower St. Lawrence region. My father was a country doctor, my grandfather a farmer. I studied in French. In this country of mine, I gained many times the trust and respect of a majority of people who do not speak my language, who do not share my culture and whose traditions are not the same as mine.

Although part of the minority, I was able to work and assume responsibilities without any difficulty in this country. The Leader of the Opposition himself once assumed very important responsibilities within a Canadian government. He himself agreed to represent his country, that is, Canada, overseas. He was even called "Excellency" and he did not complain. This is to say that this country is a country of great tolerance, compassion and opportunities for everyone who wants to take advantage of what it has to offer.

The Leader of the Opposition is a clever speaker. Listening to his argument, I have noticed that he knows how to skip details and caricature the facts.

There is no doubt that when he referred to the Meech Lake Accord and to the Charlottetown Agreement, he not once reminded us that the Parti québécois, which is the head office of the Bloc Quebecois, did not want to see the Meech Lake Accord nor the Charlottetown Agreement passed. At no time. I accept that some people may wish that all possible powers be granted to a State, a country separated and independent from Canada, but, please, do not make us believe that the Meech Lake Accord or the Charlottetown Agreement would have satisfied the Bloc Quebecois or the Parti Quebecois.

So do not accuse those who might have been against the Meech Lake Accord of being traitors to Quebec. Many things have been said about the Prime Minister who had reservations and objections regarding certain aspects of the Meech Lake Accord.

Why would it be more serious for the Prime Minister, Mr. Chrétien, who was an ordinary Canadian at the time, to oppose Meech? Why would he be less of a Quebecer than Mr. Parizeau, who was also against the accord?

In fact, it is obvious that we will never agree in this political debate. As the Leader of the Opposition reminded us, for thirty years some people have been desperately trying to convince Quebecers that they would be better off if they separated from the rest of Canada.

Now I want to remind the members across the way, not those sitting at both ends but those in the middle, that during all that time they have been able to benefit from our democratic system, of the Canadian federal system, to express their point of view, to put forward their arguments in the greatest respect of democracy and of individual opinion.

It is an exceptional situation that does not exist in every country in the world. A few moments ago, I heard the Leader of the Opposition make a comment. The only reason I am mentioning this is because he himself talked about it, and I will be careful since I do not want the media to quote me incorrectly. He said that a number of Central European and East European countries had gained their independence, their national sovereignty, so why would it not be Quebec's turn to do the same. He knows full well the answer to that question.

In my capacity as Minister of Foreign Affairs, I had the opportunity to discuss with representatives from all those East European and Central European countries at the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe. How many of those people-whether they be from Croatia, from Georgia or from other regions of Europe that just became independent-how many of those people would give up their newly-gained independence to become citizens of the province of Quebec in Canada? They would be very happy to be Canadians.

The Leader of the Opposition has the habit of always going back to the 1981 referendum to claim that it is our Prime Minister who, at that time, had-and I can quote him since I took notes-"led the assault against Quebec". Why would he have led the assault against Quebec? The hon. member for Saint-Maurice was simply defending Canada. He was not against Quebec, he was for Canada. Today, many people consider it important and useful to defend Canada.

The Leader of the Opposition makes another error when he tells us that Quebecers will finally have the opportunity to vote for the status quo or for sovereignty in the next referendum. He does not recognize the reality of Canadian federalism when he talks about the status quo. Canadian federalism evolves

constantly; it is transformed by decisions made by both federal and provincial governments.

Over the years, the Government of Quebec has obtained a series of powers enabling it to take on full responsibility for areas under its jurisdiction, and in the past, legislative agreements were often used to give Quebec responsibilities which the other provinces did not have. My point is that the reference to rigid federalism is entirely inaccurate, and I think it is unworthy of the Leader of the Opposition, who favours a sound and structured debate, to say that the federalism we want is status quo federalism.

Finally, let me say that when the Leader of the Opposition starts speaking on behalf of Quebec, he is somewhat exaggerating his mandate and his role. He does not speak for Quebec. He may speak for Quebecers but he does not speak for Quebec.

Just now, he was saying that fifty members of the Bloc quebecois were elected because there was a political and economic crisis and it was therefore the Bloc's mission to try and deal with the recession and later on to deal with the political crisis through sovereignty.

I think he should at least realize this: If he and his fifty or so members were elected because of the economic situation and the political situation, he will have to admit there are people in Quebec who voted for him because of the economic situation and who did not vote for him for his political option.

The votes he got, if what he said earlier is still true, came from people who were fed up with Tory mismanagement, wanted to get rid of the former Conservative government and voted for him instead of for us.

However, in the process they did not give him the power to speak up for sovereignty and Quebec's independence. They gave him a mandate to discuss economic questions.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Bloc

Suzanne Tremblay Bloc Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC

Incredible.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

André Ouellet Liberal Papineau—Saint-Michel, QC

The hon. member may think that sounds incredible, but I would like to say, in concluding, that I realize the Leader of the Opposition has certain responsibilities in this House and that he must act accordingly. I admit that during his speech he spoke at length about economic issues, and I agree that when the Leader of the Opposition talks about the economy, when he talks about unemployment and when he talks about social measures, he is doing what he is supposed to do as the Leader of the Opposition, of what is referred to as Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

However, when he switches to his role as a supporter of Quebec's independence, he is no longer playing his part as leader of the opposition in a Canadian parliamentary system, under our Canadian Constitution. When he supports secession for Quebec, he is going far beyond the normal role of a leader of the opposition, whose aspirations are to become prime minister of the legitimate government, not to become the head of an independent State.

I do not see how he will manage to reconcile these two roles. I know that he takes 100 per cent of the salary of the opposition leader as well as 100 per cent of all the benefits that go with the job. I can tell him that in his speech, today, he earned only 75 per cent of his salary.

In closing, I would like to say that the debate we must have with the Canadian population regarding the future of Quebec is a very important one. During the hearings of the Bélanger-Campeau Commission, we hardly touched on the problems. The Leader of the Opposition referred to a document dealing with duplication. I must remind him, as he knows for sure, that this document was not prepared by the Bélanger-Campeau Commission, it was submitted to it. It was discussed by the Commission, but not commissioned by it. It was commissioned by Mr. Claude Morin for some students and faculties of the school of public administration (ENAP) in Quebec. Clearly, this is not a document you can consider to be thorough.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Bloc

Yvan Loubier Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, when I heard the Minister of Foreign Affairs a while ago comment at length the speech of my leader, the Leader of the Opposition, I thought I was in the twilight zone. It was as though the minister had never lived through the last 15 or 20 years in Quebec and in Canada. It was as though the member for Papineau-Saint-Michel and his leader had never participated in the night of the long knives or the Meech failure. I also was led to believe that the member for Papineau-Saint-Michel had never worked for the Bélanger-Campeau Commission, that he had not understood the overwhelming message of the men and women of Quebec who testified in front of that commission. It was as though the reply of September 24, 1991, that of Beaudoin-Dobbie and of Beaudoin-Edwards, the July 7th Agreement, as well as the Charlottetown Agreement, rejected with a massive majority by Quebecers, had never existed. In one word, I thought I was on another planet.

When I heard the member for Papineau-Saint-Michel question the legitimacy of the vote expressed by Quebecers and the legitimacy of the Bloc Quebecois as the Official Opposition, that helped me understand how the member viewed democracy. If the existence of the Bloc Quebecois has but one merit, Mr. Speaker, it is certainly that of having launched the debate on the future of Quebec and of Canada and that was our first objective.

Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I would urge the member for Papineau-Saint-Michel to be a bit more democratic in the future when he speaks about the Bloc Quebecois and about its role as the Official Opposition.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

André Ouellet Liberal Papineau—Saint-Michel, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to answer the member and to remind him that I am not questioning the legitimacy of the Leader of the Opposition in this Parliament. I congratulated him for being elected and bringing with him fifty or so members. What I said is that, once here, he cannot claim that he won strictly on the strength of his separatist platform. In this respect, I quoted his own speech in which he said that he came here because there was a problem with the economy. People voted for him and for BQ candidates not because of their political message but because of the economic situation. What I do not like is for the Leader of the Opposition to claim, as he just did in his remarks, that the referendum debate has started.

If he wants to have a referendum debate here in this House, he might have the opportunity to do so. But above all, what is really important is for him to have a real dialogue on the ins and outs of such a process, and that is what I urge him to do. Bélanger-Campeau did not conduct such an in depth study. I sat on that commission and I saw how those who appeared in front of it and those who were leading the debate were all of the same mind and going in the same direction.

As a matter of fact, all those supposedly non-aligned people are now joining the ranks of the Parti Quebecois, starting with Mr. Campeau and his cohorts. We now know that all those who then claimed to be non-aligned were indeed biased.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Bloc

François Langlois Bloc Bellechasse, QC

Mr. Speaker, would the hon. member for Papineau-Saint-Michel be so kind as to clear up a point for me? Ever since the Liberal convention when the hon. member for Saint-Maurice became leader of the Liberal Party, it has been quite clear that from then on we would not hear a single word on the Constitution. That policy was confirmed after the demise of the Charlottetown Accord in English-speaking Canada and in Quebec. It was stated again during the election campaign that we would not hear any more about the Constitution. The economy would be the only topic for discussion.

But except for the few civilities that are in order, the Constitution was the only theme of the hon. member's speech. Are we to infer that the Cabinet is divided over this issue and that you are going to vote for the amendment moved by the hon. member for Calgary Southwest and leader of the Reform Party to the effect that there should be more free votes in this House? I get the impression that you would feel more comfortable that way.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

André Ouellet Liberal Papineau—Saint-Michel, QC

I welcome the hon. member's response to my comments. He speaks just like all other people in Quebec who resent Quebecers being told they stand to gain from being part of Canada. Each and every time we tell Quebecers there are benefits for them in being part of the Canadian federation, the proponents of Quebec independence always try to delude people into believing that our comments are inappropriate and inconsistent. Mr. Speaker, an enlightened debate on the consequences an independent Quebec would have is certainly in order.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

André Ouellet Liberal Papineau—Saint-Michel, QC

I am delighted to see those members applaud. I am glad they sit in this House because their contacts with other members will help them do away with parochialism, widen their horizons and understand that there is a place in Canada, and a good one at that, for Quebecers who want to be part of this country and be respected in it.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Bloc

Louis Plamondon Bloc Richelieu, QC

Mr. Speaker, I seek your guidance. Do I have the floor for a comment or for my speech?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

There are two minutes left in the question and comment period.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Bloc

Louis Plamondon Bloc Richelieu, QC

I will be pleased to use them to say a few words to the hon. minister who has just spoken. He says we do not speak for the men and women of Quebec, I wonder whose interest he has at heart?

When he says that we have benefitted a lot from federalism, he fails to mention that we had to fight the system in order to get what we got. Remember the fight of Jean Lesage. Remember the fight of Mr. Johnson, the real one, Daniel. Remember the fight of Mr. Bertrand-

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The time for questions and comments has now expired. I think that the hon. member for Richelieu is next.

I would like to thank members for not voting against me yesterday when my election was proposed. I have not worn this gown for 15 years; I am glad to see that it still fits. I want you to know that to get anywhere here you need to have names like my colleague's and mine.

More seriously, I will no doubt make mistakes over the weeks and months to come that will entail some problems and I would like to ask members from all sides to be patient.

The hon. member for Richelieu has the floor.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

Bloc

Louis Plamondon Bloc Richelieu, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate you on your election and to congratulate also the Speaker and the Deputy Chairman of the Committees of the Whole for their appointment. As our leader has already done, I want to assure you that you do have our full trust, support and collaboration and that you have my personal support.

I would also like to take this opportunity, as this is my first speech, to congratulate the Right Hon. Jean Chrétien, Prime Minister, my leader, the Leader of the Opposition, and the leader of the Reform Party for their election and to extend those congratulations to all the members present here tonight.

Before I begin my speech, I would like to complete my comment since I am lucky enough to speak right after the question period following the speech of the hon. minister. I would like to remind him of all the great battles we fought against federalism just to obtain a few crumbs. Let him remember also that federalism gave us the War Measures Act and the 1982 Constitution, signed without Quebec's consent. I can still see the Prime Minister and you sitting in front of the Parliament with the Queen of England in 1982 and celebrating the exclusion of Quebec from the Constitution; Quebecers remember also and maybe that is one reason why there are so many of us representing the Bloc Quebecois here.

That is what you did. In 1982, you were with the Prime Minister celebrating the exclusion of Quebec. Would you have done so if another province had declined to sign the Constitution? Never! Quebecers did not forget and they wanted to show you so clearly by their votes.

Mr. Speaker, I would like first of all to sincerely thank my constituents in the riding of Richelieu who have once again placed their confidence in me in the election of October 25.

The riding of Richelieu, which I am proud to represent here, is typical of Quebec as a whole. For one thing, over 65 per cent of my constituents voted for the Bloc Quebecois. Moreover, these people are going through very harsh economic times.

The riding is characterized by an active agricultural life, dynamic industries, the presence of members of the Abenaki Nation, seaport operations and burgeoning cultural activities. There are towns like Sorel, whose history goes back 350 years, and Nicolet, with its Museum of Religions. I could also mention the beautiful farmlands of St-Ours, Ste-Victoire, St-Robert, St-Aimé, Baie-du-Febvre, Ste-Gertrude and parts of the lovely towns of Bécancour, La Visitation, St-Zéphirin, Précieux Sang and Nicolet. There are also the commercial fishermen in Pierreville and St-François, the big iron and steel companies in Sorel and Tracy and the high technology companies of the Bécancour industrial park, the biggest industrial park in Quebec and the whole of Canada. Unfortunately, as elsewhere in Quebec, the region is struggling with an unusually high unemployment rate and some serious social problems, like poverty and dropping out of school.

On September 4, 1984, I was elected for the first time as a member of this House. The mandate my constituents gave me was clear: I was supposed to strive to bring about real change and fight for their interests. During the debate on the first Speech from the Throne of the conservative government, I denounced the waste and chaos resulting from 15 years of liberal power. Pierre Trudeau's team, of which today's Prime Minister was one of the main actors, left Canada a huge debt, inconsistent policies and constitutional squabbles that were almost institutionalized.

If I interchanged the names of the parties today in this House, I could make almost the same speech as I did in 1984, after the Speech from the Throne.

We had hoped that things would change for Quebecers and the people of Richelieu, but they have not. The Conservatives too left Quebecers with an enormous debt, inconsistent policies and a constitutional disaster.

Unemployment is still alarming and is forcing thousands of Canadians into inactivity. More than ever before, businesses have problems upgrading their facilities. Like never before, farmers will have to face the new GATT realities. Our youth are lacking resources to start businesses. The gap between the poor and the rich is constantly widening.

The people of Richelieu also share with other Quebecers the huge legacy that was left by the old federal parties: a $46 billion deficit and a $500 billion debt. Think about it: that represents a $100 000 one-family house for 5 million Canadian families.

The people of my riding must also deal with the overlapping between Ottawa and Quebec programs in the areas of professional training, health, education, environment, communications and assistance to businesses. Another concrete example of Quebecers paying twice is the Nicolet Police Institute, in my riding.

For instance, a municipality such as Tracy, which is located in my riding, wants to have one of its police officers specially trained in criminal investigations and has to send him to the Nicolet Police Institute, but the municipality must pay for the cost of that training. On the other hand, for other municipalities throughout Canada, there is the Canadian Police College.

These municipalities also send their police officers for training in specialized fields like criminal investigations, but in their case, the federal government pays for all the costs of the programs. Quebecers pay 100 per cent of the specialized training for their police officers and also 25 per cent for the cost of the Canadian Police College, since we represent 25 per cent of the Canadian population. That is a concrete example of overlapping which I see every day in my riding.

Would it not be more normal that 25 per cent of the money paid to the Canadian Police College be given to the Nicolet Police Institute , so that it could offer free training to police officers who wish to specialize, the way it is in the rest of Canada? Here is a good example of costly duplication for Quebec.

Let me now give you, Mr. Speaker, some of my views on the throne speech presented by the Liberals. There is not much there to reassure me. I see no clear indication that the liberal government intends to deal with the real problems. I believe they will be much the same as the Conservatives.

What I gathered from that speech is that they are going to try and solve the problems of my constituents and Quebec people in general with the same, ineffective means used by previous governments.

What do they propose to deal with these problems? A National Forum on Health, when health is a provincial matter. Another forum to deal with foreign policy.

I could not possibly avoid mentioning the report of the Deputy Prime Minister regarding the new Secretariat for the North American Commission on Environment. We expected a clear decision which would have confirmed the role of Montreal as the centre for the environment, but that is not what the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Environment did. She asked a private company to prepare a report.

We all know what type of mandates the Tories gave their friends who contributed to the election fund. Same solution, same procedure. I want them to know we will be on the look-out and we will remind the Liberal Party of its commitment in this matter. I am eager to see what the price of those consultations will be.

Let me remind my colleagues across the way that the Auditor General's report is very clear on this. By the way, what were they all doing yesterday, in the beautiful city of Ottawa, after the Speech from the Throne? They were squandering money. And what did the Liberals do, after promising to curtail expenses? Dressed in tuxedos and ball gowns, they attended the ball of Her Majesty's representative. While the poor in my riding, in Manitoba and in Newfoundland sat in front of their TV set all day hoping for something real to come out of the Speech from the Throne, they went dancing. These poor people learned almost nothing from the speech; they learned though that you were going to the ball.

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6 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

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6 p.m.

Bloc

Louis Plamondon Bloc Richelieu, QC

Did the poor people find a cause for hope? No! But no expense was too great for the others-caviar, wine, champagne; one hundred dollars per person maybe, approximately $100,000 for a party for 900, at a time when people are starving. That is what you did yesterday. What surprised me most of all was to see the Reform Party members join in. You said when you arrived here that you would cut everywhere. You told the shoeshiner, who barely earns $20,000 a year: "That's too much! We are sending you back on the dole". But you had no problem with last night's party. They want to cut the shoeshiner. They want to eliminate his job. They were even ready to discuss the price of a club sandwich in Parliament. Yet, they were all dancing about at the Governor's party. Members of the Bloc, however, kept their word and refused to be part of those unacceptable expenditures.

Our party has made the economic recovery one of its priorities. The Speech from the Throne does little to give back hope to the unemployed in my riding and to all those young people who want to work. The infrastructure program announced by the Liberals will bring no solution to structural unemployment. It will not allow workers to acquire the new qualifications they need to get tomorrow's jobs. Quite the contrary! It is to be expected that as soon as the work is finished, the workers will once more be unemployed.

As you know, Mr. Speaker, our party wants to do its part to eliminate the Canadian debt. The Liberal government systematically refuses to go to the roots of the public finance problem and submit to a rigorous review each and every federal department and organization, in order to cut the fat, as my leader said earlier. And we all know that there is still a lot of fat to cut. I mentioned the Governor General's ball earlier. Again this week, we saw how millions of dollars were spent by several federal departments to produce videos depicting the life of officers of the Canadian forces and on windsurfing safely. These are real examples of wasting of public funds and members of this House, including those who put on their patent leather shoes to go dancing at the Governor General's ball last evening, will have to work hard to eliminate such waste.

It should be noted that the Liberal government has in no way committed itself to reform the tax system in an equitable way and to challenge tax shelters such as family trusts. It is unacceptable that wealthy families be allowed to hide their fortune from the tax man while the burden of the middle class is constantly increasing. The Bloc Quebecois will fight in this place in order that any reform of taxation and social programs, in particular those for the poorest in our society, is done according to the principles of equity.

I must say that I am also extremely concerned by the desire of the Liberal government to update, as it says, and to restructure social programs. After posturing as the defenders of social programs during the last electoral campaign, now the Liberals are threatening to do an about face and to slash the social safety net protecting Quebecers and Canadians.

The Bloc Quebecois will not allow such a reform to be carried out at the expense of the most vulnerable members of our society, the very same who are the first ones to be affected by the present economic situation.

Finally, the Speech from the Throne ignored altogether the Liberal promise not to cut transfer payments to the provinces. The Liberal government will have to deal with a block of members committed to preventing it from carrying out its fiscal reform on the back of the provinces, which have been doing more than their share for a number of years.

On the strength of the mandate given to us by Quebec voters, we are determined to talk in this House about real people and their problems. During the coming months, my colleagues and I will show the many failures of the Canadian federal system. We will do so at every opportunity.

We will talk about the slow death of Quebec regions, the victims of Ottawa's paralysing centralism keeping people in the regions in a state of dependency.

We will be talking about economic recovery and industrial development policies that cannot get off the ground and are ineffective because they have fallen victim to all of the illogical government programs. We will be talking about the millions of dollars wasted left and right without any apparent logic and especially without any input from the people directly involved.

We will be talking about this country that is buckling under the weight of the debt load and that is incapable of achieving the necessary consensus to see things through. We will show that the sorry state of Canada's public finances is attributable not only to the actions of governments, but first and foremost, to a federal system which can only result in a stalemate.

We will be talking about this country struggling with the inconsistency and confusion of overlapping programs. In fact, there are more than 50 job training programs and sub-programs, not to mention matching programs set up by the provinces, particularly in Quebec.

We will expose this system which unfairly allocates job creation funds and fails to give Quebec its rightful share.

The Bloc Quebecois will speak at great length in the days and weeks to come about the real problems. For the first and undoubtedly, I hope, the last time in the history of Canada, a political party that embodies hope for true change for Quebecers will be present in this House.

Setting aside arbitrariness and partisanship, the Bloc Québécois is here to say what the old federal parties have always prevented Quebec from saying.

Try as they may to escape reality, the Prime Minister and his colleagues will have 54 members of the Bloc Quebecois sitting across the floor who, as they were mandated by their voters in Quebec, will raise the real issues, flush out the real causes and put forward real solutions.

Firmly, but also respectfully, honestly and with no hard feelings whatsoever, we will explain to our colleagues from the rest of Canada what our vision for the future of Quebec is, a vision of a sovereign Quebec fully equipped with the tools essential to its development.

Contrary to what the Liberal government seems to think, for us, to talk about the Constitution has little to do with philosophy. It deals with concrete things like eliminating costly overlaps and waste. We, in the Bloc Quebecois, insist that decisions be made by the people who will suffer the consequences. And that is exactly what we will do, in accordance with the mandate received from our voters, in the riding of Richelieu and throughout Quebec, to defend the interests of the people of Quebec.

I wish to thank once again the people of my riding for their show of confidence and I want them to know how proud I am to serve them here, in Ottawa.

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6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to what our colleague from Richelieu said, and I wish to congratulate him on his re-election to the House of Commons. We have known each other for a very long time, he and I, and we sat together on several committees, interparliamentary bodies and so on.

I must tell you, Mr. Speaker, that I was rather surprised by what our colleague opposite said. He just said that since his arrival in 1984 or almost since then, he has found that the federal system was not working and, to quote him, that there was a lot of waste.

Nevertheless, a few years later, while he was still a member of the Conservative government, his present leader, when he got elected as a minister-he was a minister even before he was elected as the member for Lac-Saint-Jean, as I recall-some $25 million in promises had been made for a byelection in Lac-Saint-Jean, Mr. Speaker.

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6:10 p.m.

An hon. member

To buy the voters.

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6:10 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

May I conclude that the member is now apologizing in a way for that by-election his leader won when he came to this House a few years later? Even more, given his denunciation today, how did he manage to be re-elected under the Progressive Conservative banner in 1988 before coming so late to this conversion which he just explained to us today?