Debates of Jan. 26th, 1994

Infrastructure Program

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

A memorandum to the Prime Minister from the Secretary to the Cabinet obtained yesterday by the media refers to a serious divergence of views among government ministers with respect to the federal role in the national infrastructure program.

This memo reports that the minister responsible for infrastructure favours a co-operative program where provinces and municipalities would meet federal criteria, but the Minister of Human Resources Development is said to favour much more direct federal and ministerial control over the projects.

Will the Prime Minister tell the House how this power struggle has been resolved and what he is doing to safeguard the national infrastructure program from degenerating into the pork-barrel politics of the past?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the memo was received. I read it and the problem was resolved.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

A supplementary question for the Prime Minister, Mr. Speaker. That is hardly an adequate answer.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Maybe I can be more specific. Will federal ministers in each province have a veto over proposed infrastructure projects in that province, even if the project has nothing to do with their portfolios and is approved and recommended by the provincial and municipal authorities in that province?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the decisions are made by the minister responsible, the President of the Treasury Board. He is receiving representations; he is listening to ministers; he is listening to members of Parliament. But he makes the final decision.

He receives representations from everybody, but he is the one responsible because I am the Prime Minister and asked him to do it.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is an interesting reply from the Prime Minister, but my question is a very simple and direct one. Perhaps you could try again. I just asked, does the minister-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. With all respect I would ask the questioner to please put the questions through the Chair.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is just to get clarification from the Prime Minister.

Do the ministers in each province have a veto, yes or no, on these infrastructure projects recommended by municipal-the answer is no.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is n-o, no.

Tax Shelters

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance has so far refused to respond to the questions I asked him in this House about his intentions. But he does not hesitate to make statements outside Parliament; in particular, he said that Quebecers and Canadians told him yesterday that they were willing to pay more taxes.

My question is for the Minister of Finance: Did Quebecers and Canadians also tell him that they were fed up with unfair taxes and expected him to eliminate the family trust system and tax loopholes benefiting the very rich?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development - Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member may be referring to yesterday's conference. Canadians made it very clear to us that they wanted to examine the whole tax base and loophole issue and that they wanted jobs, as we said in our red book.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, out of respect for this House, for the neediest of Quebecers and Canadians and for middle-income earners crippled by federal taxes, can the Minister of Finance make a commitment here in this House to give all these people a break and tackle the real problems, namely the tax shelters benefitting the very rich? That is the real scandal of Canadian taxation.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, since these conferences started, we have been talking about dealing with these tax loopholes. I do

not know where he is coming from- No, I know exactly where he is coming from. We have said very clearly that we intend to make the tax system more equitable than it is now, by eliminating tax loopholes.

Income Tax

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

It was reported in the Gazette on January 22, 1994 that a government member for Newfoundland had approached the minister to ask him to change the Income Tax Act in order to have the Governor General pay income tax.

I have received a number of angry phone calls in North Vancouver concerning this report, in particular one from Mrs. Elinor Ryan who was shocked that not only did the Governor General not pay income tax but he could possibly be eligible for a GST rebate cheque since he has no taxable income.

I would like to ask the minister what steps he is taking to encourage the Governor General to pay income tax?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that the salary of the Governor General is set taking into account the fact that he does not pay income tax. There is no net loss to fisc.

I would tell the hon. member that I have not discussed this with the Governor General. I have not seen him since I was sworn in and I did not think that the time was particularly propitious at that moment.

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I can understand the minister's reticence in approaching this matter.

Last year, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth began voluntarily paying income taxes. It does seem quite contradictory that the Queen is paying income taxes and her representative in Canada is not doing so.

Will the minister approach the Governor General with a view to his voluntarily paying income taxes?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, some of my colleagues have suggested that we look at the relative incomes of the Queen and the Governor General.

I take the member's question as a representation and I assure him that the next time I see the Governor General, which I suspect may not be for a long time, I will bring this up.

Indian Affairs

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the minister of Indian affairs, I will direct my question to the Prime Minister. The Quebec Minister responsible for Native Affairs, Mr. Christos Sirros, said two days ago that native self-government could be achieved by administrative agreement, that is, with no constitutional amendment.

I would therefore ask the Prime Minister if he still shares the Quebec minister's opinion that native self-government can be recognized through administrative agreements alone.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, what I said in the House last week was that we can do it without amending the Constitution. It is evident that Mr. Sirros has come to the same conclusion.

It is a recommendation that was made by the commission of inquiry on native rights chaired by two people, a judge from Quebec and Mr. Erasmus, who said that we could achieve the same goals without changing the Canadian Constitution.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was at one time minister of Indian affairs. Does he not agree that establishing native self-government on a sound foundation requires amending the Constitution, as the chief of the First Nations, Mr. Ovide Mercredi, maintains and asserts?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think that there is a mood at this time to hold constitutional conferences on any subject whatsoever. I think that it would be very prudent to have a system of Indian self-government; after several years, we would know exactly how it operates and that it is working well. If we had to entrench it in the Constitution at that time, we could do so.

It may be more prudent to act that way than to amend the Constitution without knowing exactly all the long-term consequences.

Job Training

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development and was inspired by Mr. Bryan Dale of Willowdale, Ontario.

In Tuesday's Globe and Mail , the minister is reported as saying that: ``an 18-year old dropout has as much right under the rules of fairness to get access to a good secure job over time as does the Queen's University economist who is working for a stock firm''.

Will the minister agree that promising a job irrespective of training is the wrong message to send to teenage students who are considering dropping out of school?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I am in full agreement with the idea that offering that kind of job opportunity without training is not the proper way to approach it.

That is exactly the reason the government is committed to a major apprenticeship program, a major youth service program, a major revision and restructuring of our employment, training, social assistance programs so we can get to all young people regardless of their status in life real hope for the future. That was the intent of my statement, to make sure everybody in this society is treated and equally. That is the Liberal way of doing things.