Debates of Jan. 28th, 1994

Volunteer Services

[Francis Leblanc, Liberal, Cape Breton Highlands—Canso, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Strait Area Mutual Aid Association is a group of 25 volunteer rescue units in eastern Nova Scotia that responds to emergencies such as fires, accidents and search and rescues, all free of charge to governments or citizens. These volunteer services are absolutely vital to safety in rural communities, but they are being gouged by the outrageous radio licence fees they must pay to the federal government.

The previous Conservative government raised the association's fee from a flat rate of $260 per year to an irrational calculation totalling over $8,000. This increase ignores the economic value of volunteer services to the federal government and it threatens the very future of these services in rural Canada.

I call upon the new industry minister to correct this situation. Volunteer rescue units simply cannot afford these high fees, and eastern Nova Scotia simply cannot afford to lose their services.

Port Perry

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak very briefly about one of the towns in my riding. It is known as Port Perry and it is my home town. This is a beautiful place on the shores of Lake Scugog, ideal for recreation, fishing, tourism and other sports.

Recently one of our high school students who travelled out west for a vacation and to explore Canada, Elaine Lally, was involved in a very serious car accident and continued hospitalization was required.

I note our whole community will be out tonight in force to show our support and make financial contribution to the family. I believe it is important to realize that in these difficult economic times, with so much unemployment and other hardships in our midst, our communities can rally in support worthwhile causes and not lose insight into the important aspects of life which I believe unite all Canadians.

National Forum On Health

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased this morning to hear the minister of health talk about the national forum on health which will be chaired by the Prime Minister.

I hope the forum will address the shortage of physicians in rural areas and the movement of physicians trained in Canada to the United States. Villages like Keene and Lakefield in the township of Otonabee in Peterborough riding are already suffering serious shortages of physicians.

As costs are cut there is a tendency to centralize services. To obtain dialysis, for example, people have to travel great distances in great discomfort.

I hope the national forum will bear in mind that a highly centralized health system that appears cheaper at first sight will in the end cost more.

Sorel-Tracy Area

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Richelieu, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to invite all Quebecers and Canadians to the opening of the one-kilometre long skating rink set up by the Association des chasseurs et pêcheurs de Sainte-Anne-de-Sorel in the magnificent scenery of the Sorel islands.

Visitors will also get the chance to participate in the Carnaval de l'acier, one of the 10 most popular winter events in Quebec, which will be held from February 5 to 14. This year, the city of Tracy will be especially honoured on its 40th anniversary. Ten artists will create a gigantic snow sculpture representing the history and cultural heritage of this community.

Welcome to all in this beautiful setting of Sorel-Tracy which is equally charming during the winter and in the summertime.

Arctic Winter Games

[Dave Chatters, Reform, Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I take this opportunity to inform all Canadians about an event that is taking place in my riding of Athabasca.

The Arctic Winter Games will take place in the community of Slave Lake, Alberta, from March 6 to March 12, 1994. These international games are open to athletes north of the 55th parallel. They will provide an opportunity for athletes from small, remote communities to take part in international competition. Many of these athletes will go on to much higher levels of competition.

The games will be opened March 6 by Governor General Ramon Hnatyshyn and will welcome teams from the Northwest Territories, Yukon, Alaska, northern Alberta, Greenland and Russia, involving 1,465 athletes, coaches and cultural participants.

The $3.1 million cost of the games will be funded half by the federal, provincial and municipal governments and half by a very successful local volunteer fund raising effort.

Please join with me in wishing the town of Slave Lake and all the athletes great success.

Burlington Winter Carnival

[Paddy Torsney, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, while many of us are familiar with Ottawa's Winterlude, I would like to inform the House that in my riding of Burlington we celebrate winter with a big splash as well.

Burlington's family winter carnival extends over three weekends and began January 23 with an eight-kilometre Robbie Burns Day race. Organized by volunteers, local businesses and organizations, the event attracts people from all over the region.

Sponsors include the Burlington Spectator , St. John Ambulance, the Halton Regional Police Force, Ford Motor Company, and Energy 108.

I invite all members to join with us in events such as the annual women's snowball-basketball tournament and the annual high school hockey tournament and enjoy winter.

The Budget

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, at the pre-budget consultations hosted by the Minister of Finance the government has listened to Canadians saying that job creation must be the nation's first priority.

When I listen to these people, just as when I listen to people at the skating rinks, coffee shops and street corners in my constituency, I also hear a message that says the people of Canada want job and income security, as well as competence and fairness in the way government collects and spends taxpayers' money. The bottom line is that Canadians want to see results that will restore their confidence in their own as well as Canada's future.

There are many ideas on the table and the finance minister has a difficult task ahead of him. The advice he is getting from ordinary Canadians is: concentrate on creating jobs, provide greater economic security and put more fairness into our tax system. He will be doing the right thing and it will benefit of all Canadians.

National Defence

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last night we heard after secret negotiations obviously behind closed doors, that apparently there had been no incident at Kanesatake.

Could the Minister of National Defence tell me why he kept this meeting between the military authorities and the Mohawks secret up to the very last minute, after we had been asking the minister questions all week about this matter and we only got answers that did not make sense?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs)]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday there was a meeting between the officials of the Canadian forces and Chief Peltier of Kanesatake, a normal meeting for information purposes. There is no secret and there is no crisis.

As I explained earlier in the House, the natives believe that reserves are sovereign, which is certainly not the position of the Canadian government. The armed forces have the right to travel anywhere in Canada.

What the natives want, especially in Kanesatake, is to be advised when there is a plane or helicopter in the area. Permission is not an issue, because it is the position of the Canadian government that although it is our duty to let people know, we do not need permission.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see the minister is now prepared to answer our questions, which will make things easier all around.

Just to make sure the minister does not change his story again, could he confirm there was no trace of bullets of any kind on any of the aircraft, that there was no shooting and that, except for the army's meeting with the Mohawks, there was no investigation and there will be no investigation?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the chief has stated publicly that the matter is closed. I stated that yesterday. There is no damage to the helicopter or to the planes.

I would like to repeat the position of the Government of Canada in English. The natives believe that their reserves are sovereign. I realize, and the hon. member opposite knows that, the word sovereign is being kicked around on a day-to-day basis in Quebec. Frankly we do not like the way it is being kicked around. We do not like the way the natives are being dragged into the sovereignty debate.

We believe that the matter is closed. This was obviously something of great concern to the natives when the helicopter landed, and that there are great sensitivities.

The chief has said that even though they believe their land is sovereign, a position we do not accept, he does not expect the Canadian forces to ask permission to have any of its planes or personnel deployed in the area but simply to have notice as we would do for any local authority whether in the hon. member's riding or the city of Vanier down the street.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the territory of Kanesatake and all territories inhabited by the Mohawks in Quebec have the same status as other territories, could the minister tell us whether, as he probably would do anywhere else, he is willing to simply give us some information about the transmitter, the signal that touched off these events? Would the minister care to shed some light on the subject?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have answered this question before in the House. The chief is satisfied.

There was a signal. We had a Hercules aircraft in the area. It radioed back to Trenton where it was known we had a search and rescue helicopter at Dorval. It was dispatched immediately to the area because of the electronic signal on DND frequency.

A search was made of the area. In the meantime the Hercules had to circle around the area which gave the natives cause for concern. Obviously it could not land but it had to help the helicopter pinpoint from where the electronic signal was coming.

The helicopter landed. The crew made a search and just before they were finished and had come to the conclusion there was no downed plane and there did not seem to be an emergency-they did not exactly know where the signal was coming from but if they had stayed longer they might have found out-the individual approached them as I have said before. He said shots were fired. The crew, feeling the mission was accomplished and there was no danger to anyone, decided to leave in the interests of not provoking a confrontation.

Taxation

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we hear all sorts of terrible rumours about the intentions of the Minister of Finance who, it seems, wants to pick the pockets of Canadian taxpayers again.

My question is for the Minister of National Revenue. Does he not think that he should ask the Minister of Finance to spare the already overtaxed middle class and reach instead for the more well-to-do?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, a question regarding new taxes has been raised by the hon. member. The minister has previously stated in the House that the entire tax system is being reviewed with a view to getting greater fairness in the Canadian tax system.

I can assure the hon. member that when the budget comes down he will see there is a greater fairness in the tax system.

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Minister of National Revenue not find unacceptable that the Minister of Finance plans to make seniors the next victims of his tax increases while stubbornly refusing to abolish the tax breaks which benefit the rich of our society?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I have answered the question. We are examining fairness in the tax system and the Minister of Finance in his budget will look at those subjects.

Voter's Rights

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Is the Prime Minister now prepared to accept and act on the need for quick passage of legislation permitting voters the right to recall?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. member that this idea was tried once in 1936 by the Aberhart government in Alberta. One of the members of that government was the father of the leader of his party. A year later there was a petition to recall Mr. Aberhart himself. A law was then passed by the Aberhart government-Mr. Manning Sr. was a member of that government-to abolish the law retroactively so-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

-if the hon. member has the time he should call Mr. Manning in Calgary and ask him to have a little discussion with his father over the weekend and report to the House on Monday.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. I would point out to the Prime Minister that the right of recall belongs to citizens in many other democratic jurisdictions.

Will the Prime Minister tell the House when he might consider responding to the wishes of millions of Canadians who believe that they should also have the right to recall MPs who fail to represent their interests or who betray their interests or who misrepresent themselves to the people?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there are two elements I would like the hon. member to consider. It will cost money to have an election every time the people are not happy with their member. Suppose they were to recall the whole Reform Party, perhaps right away. I will look at the proposition to see if it is a sensible.

I would like to have some information from Mr. Manning Sr. They tried it and it did not work. When a government is in power, that government has to make some tough decisions. If

there is to be a recall it comes four years later when there is another election. That is the democratic process.

I meet a lot of Canadians. Many of the candidates for my party who were defeated tell me that if they had a chance today to run in an election they might do very well in some of the ridings that elected Reform members. Unfortunately we do not have recall and for the stability of Parliament is it a good idea?

There was an incident in this House and the member is no longer a member of our party. Incidents of the same nature occurred in the past with every party in this House. I do not think it is a very practical idea. Again, I repeat, that English precedents are very important in common law, and the precedent occurred within the Manning family.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

If the Prime Minister is not prepared to support recall, how does he propose to restore voters' confidence and their respect for their Parliament?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what we are doing. We have done a lot of things to bring back respect for this institution. One of the ways we have done it, for example, happened in the House this week. Everybody says the mood is much better, there are fewer catcalls, or whatever, from members.

We have had two debates of a type that did not exist before; one on Bosnia and the other on the cruise missile. Everybody, including the leader of your party and the Leader of the Official Opposition and the leader of the NDP all congratulated the government for its initiative in bringing back respect to this institution.

We will undertake many more measures like that in order to gain back the confidence that this House deserves from the Canadian people.