Mr. Speaker, it has been most fascinating coming to the House of Commons and dealing directly with people who are eminently qualified to speak for the Liberal Party as members of Parliament for the Liberals.
One of the difficult things I have encountered is that I do not seem to be able to get a straight answer to a very simple question and it reflects around the area of universality. Does the member actually believe in universality?
As I listened to the member's very eloquent speech it seemed to me that he, like most Liberals, is trying to have it both ways. The Liberals are saying we are going to have government intervention but we are going to have free market. Some of the things unfortunately are mutually exclusive.
I am not suggesting for a second that I do not believe in the basic concept of equalization and trying to even things out but we have developed this to such a science in Canada that we have reached the point at which we no longer can afford it.
I have a question with respect to universality. I believe this is the fourth time and the fourth member I have put this question to. I know the member is going to give me a straight answer to this question because he is such an upright looking gentleman. I can tell he is going to give me a straight answer.
Where are we going with this thing? Does the member actually believe in the concept of universality in which every single Canadian has equal access to all of the programs available? Or does the member believe, as the Reform Party believes, that we are going to have to target some of our social programs, that we are going to have to be selective and make sure that the people in Canada who are most in need will have those services available to them? In other words, that is the difference. Those two things are mutually exclusive-universality or are we going to be targeting our resources because that is not universality? Which is it?