Debates of Oct. 27th, 1994

Canada Council

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Canada Council operates under the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

The council granted Hilarey Mackey and Shelly Wine $16,000 to produce the video "Fury of The Sound" even though these women were under criminal contempt charges for the very activity that was to be the subject of the video: criminally blocking forestry workers from going to work in Clayoquot Sound. Mackey and Wine were each sentenced to 21 days in jail on October 6 for criminal contempt.

The minister states he does not have any authority over the awarding of these grants and the director of the Canada Council defers to a system of evaluation by peers. Canadian taxpayers are fed up with organizations that use their tax dollars to foster the destruction of their lifestyle. When is the minister going to change legislation in his department?

Child Abuse

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Mr. Speaker, October is known as Child Abuse Prevention Month.

Child abuse is the most disturbing problem facing Canadian society today. It is not a new problem but as a society we recognize that violence against children whether it is physical, sexual or emotional is a problem which concerns us all.

For too long children have been silenced by fear and isolation and by attitudes which deny the seriousness and extent of the problem. Child abuse can no longer be tolerated in Canada. It is time to act against child abuse in all of its forms. We must challenge the attitudes which devalue our children. We must intervene when we know that a child is being threatened.

As the federal government we are committed to stopping child abuse through the family violence initiative. Working in partnership with community and national organizations, corporate and voluntary sectors and all levels of government we have developed prevention and intervention strategies to protect children and families.

Our children can wait no longer. They are the most vulnerable members of our society and we must act now to protect them.

Value-Added Tax

[Paul Devillers, Liberal, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is high time that Canada had an integrated federal-provincial value-added sales tax. The current system is a huge burden on the government and on business and is very unfair to consumers.

I applaud the finance minister's plan to create an integrated national sales tax that would have a lower operational cost, a lower rate in most provinces and would still exclude items such as basic groceries, prescription drugs and medical services.

Canadians want to end political pettiness between the various levels of government. They want an end to duplication and they especially want an end to the GST.

The federal government's proposal reflects extensive discussions held with the provinces over the summer. Given the state of finances at all levels of government and the ever diminishing consumer purchasing power, I call on the provinces to quickly adopt the federal government's proposal.

Canadians want to see an integrated national sales tax, not just hear about it.

Rose Charlie

[Anna Terrana, Liberal, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate Rose Charlie, the grand chief of B.C. on receiving one of the Governor General's awards last week. The awards are given in commemoration of the Persons case, the decision of the British Privy Council which declared Canadian women to be persons.

Rose was given the award for over 25 years of public service and for her outstanding contributions to improving and advancing the life of natives, aboriginal women in particular.

As a founding member of Indian Rights for Indian Women, Rose helped change discriminatory legislation that deprived aboriginal women of their status when they married non-Indians or American native men. The change has enabled thousands of women and their children to regain their status. She also helped to start the Indian Homemakers Association of B.C. in the late

1960s when there were not any native organizations in the province.

Rose remains active in the community today serving as president of the Mission Friendship Centre and participating in numerous organizations.

Please join me in recognizing the accomplishments of Rose Charlie.

Regional Development

[Jean Landry, Bloc, Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Ottawa is playing some weird and wonderful games with federally-funded regional development agencies in Quebec. It has restructured the FORDQ to increase its visibility in the regions on the eve of the referendum, while it reduces funding for regional development. Even worse, these cuts are being imposed arbitrarily. Business development centres, which are on their way out, were able to create a job for $5,000, compared with $100,000 in the case of the federal infrastructures program.

Quebec should be given responsibility for regional development, which would get rid of the current bureaucratic mess and the haphazard cutbacks proposed by the federal government.

Only Quebec can consolidate the resources of all the agencies that are active in the regions. It would be a real one-stop service.

Prime Minister Of Canada

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, according to a recent Gallup poll the Prime Minister is more popular than former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau was at the time of the October crisis.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Ted White, Reform, North Vancouver, BC]

Listen to that applause, Mr. Speaker. Government members had better make the best of it while they can. Even though the Prime Minister is presently at 61 per cent popularity, guess who holds the record? Brian Mulroney. He peaked at a 62 per cent popularity rating in 1983.

Well the honeymoon for this Liberal government is over. The scandals are starting to surface. Reform MPs are looking forward to helping the Prime Minister reach the present day popularity rating of Mr. Mulroney. I think that might just be right off the bottom of the scale.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, in addition to his apparent inability to discharge his general duties and responsibilities, the Minister of Canadian Heritage has failed to bring a sensitivity of Canada's First Nations to his department.

Earlier this year Heritage Canada published an otherwise fine publication for youth entitled "The Great Canadian Adventure". It is a trivia game that asks young people questions about Canada and in doing so continues to state as fact that Quebec and Prince Edward Island were discovered by Europeans. This language is no longer appropriate.

At the same time the department has just awarded a half million dollar contract to develop curriculum materials pertaining to aboriginal people in Canada to a Montreal company that has no cultural knowledge or expertise to handle the contract. This is disturbing since the cultural and technical expertise does exist at the Saskatchewan Indian Cultural Centre in Saskatoon, a group that was vying for the contract.

First Nation peoples deserve better from the minister responsible-

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Brampton.

India

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, earlier this week the Minister of Foreign Affairs met with the home affairs minister for India to discuss many important issues, including the human rights situation in that country.

Many Canadians are concerned with current human rights practices in India. After repeated refusals to co-operate with non-governmental organizations attempting to assess the human rights condition in India, the Government of India allowed Amnesty International to conduct studies in the city of Bombay earlier this year.

As Canadians we must be concerned when a human rights organization is restricted in its efforts to assess the human rights conditions of any country. I was pleased to learn during Question Period the other day that the Canadian government has made representation to the Government of India on behalf of Amnesty International so that more thorough studies may be conducted.

It is time that Canada took a definitive stand in its relations with India and called for an open policy in that country with respect to human rights. As the Indian economy continues to grow at a very rapid pace, Canadian trade relations with India will continue to grow closer. Now is the time to insist-

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Waterloo.

Computer Technology Network

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform the House of the visit to Ottawa today of 14 CEOs representing a cross-section of a growing, vibrant information technology sector from the federal riding of Waterloo. They are part of the computer technology network in Canada's technology triangle.

The computer technology network is made up of over 125 companies employing 5,500 people and with annual revenues in excess of $600 million. Sixty per cent of their sales are derived from exports with expenditures on research and development close to $100 million annually. More than half of the 5,500 employees have been hired in the past two years.

As entrepreneurs and leaders in one of Canada's hotbeds of technology with strong connections to the University of Waterloo, these firms represent the very best that Canada has to offer to the new economy. It is companies like these that assure Canada's present and future prosperity.

Airstrips

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have been advised that documents within Parks Canada recommend the permanent closure of the Banff and Jasper Park airstrips. This is another example of the heritage minister's incompetence.

These grass airstrips are vital to the safe air transportation of local pilots through the main mountain pass corridors. Furthermore, these airstrips are maintained primarily by local pilots.

Under the department's existing recommendation, local pilots who encounter bad weather or equipment failure would have to land their aircraft on the main highways. That is stupid.

The private pilots need to be considered. In the name of public safety and common sense, I urge Parks Canada to trash this proposal.

Crtc

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, it is now common knowledge that a member of cabinet, in this case the Minister of Canadian Heritage, intervened directly with the CRTC to support an application for a radio licence, at the request of the party concerned. This was done in the form of a letter sent to the chairman of the CRTC, the regulatory body responsible for issuing licences.

My question is directed to the Prime Minister. Does he consider such action acceptable and appropriate, considering the obligation incumbent on all ministers to respect the autonomy of judicial and quasi-judicial bodies?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I discussed the incident with the minister who, like all members of this House, is the member of Parliament for his riding. All members must be available to their constituents and try to provide the services expected of a member.

In this particular case, all the minister did was bring this application to the attention of the chairman of the CRTC, with the comment: "This application should receive due consideration. To me, this means: Could you take care of this dossier, and if there are any problems, if I can be of any assistance as the member for Laval, fine.

Subsequently, when his letter was interpreted as a letter of support, as soon as the minister heard about this, without any pressure from anyone, he immediately wrote to this person, and a copy was sent to the commission to make it clear he had not supported the application in any way. He had simply asked the commission to do its job.

This is always a problem for ministers. The Hon. Leader of the Opposition must have had that experience himself. A minister is also a member of Parliament, and we have a duty to represent our constituents without influencing bodies like the CRTC.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has been unconscionably irresponsible in his attempts to downplay the seriousness of his minister's action. How can he claim it was the member of Parliament who took this action and not the minister? How could the chairman of the CRTC overlook the fact that the letter was sent by a member of Cabinet who also happen to be his own minister?

Does the Prime Minister not agree that the CRTC is a quasi-judicial body that, as such, should not be subject to any interference or pressure from the minister?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I could not agree more, and if the minister acted as the member for Laval when he asked the commission to do its job, it was not undue pressure. The minister himself said in the House this morning that perhaps he should have acted differently. Everyone makes honest mistakes, and he corrected his mistake as soon as possible.

In the circumstances, after checking with my advisers, I concluded there was nothing here to justify changing the membership of my cabinet.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister knows the precedents. They are immutable and inescapable. A minister who fails to respect the autonomy of a judicial or quasi-judicial body must relinquish his post. The present minister of Foreign Affairs and the present member for Sherbrooke know this rule and had to resign because of it.

My question is directed to the Prime Minister. Does he realize that he is guilty of dereliction of duty if he does not immediately demand the resignation of the Minister of Canadian Heritage? Does he not realize it is a matter of honour and integrity?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have acted responsibly. I have eighteen years experience as a minister, and I have seen other complex situations. As for this one, I think the minister made it clear that he had made an honest mistake and corrected it in short order.

I am surprised to see the Leader of the Opposition in such a furor, when his head office in Quebec summons its bureaucrats and tells them to knuckle under and change their political views if they want to keep their jobs.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister downplays the action of the heritage minister by claiming that the letter to the Chairman of the CRTC is not a letter of support. Yet, this is precisely what the CRTC understood and, in fact, its secretary-general wrote to the minister to thank him for what he referred to as a letter of support.

Does the Prime Minister not realize that his minister's interference is compounded by the fact that it was directed at an organization whose independent status is under the protection of the minister and that, consequently, the heritage minister was all the more guilty?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's letter is very clear. It says:

"I would be most grateful if you could give this application due consideration". Yes, due consideration. You are right.

You give this application due consideration and make a decision.

Later, when told that his action had been interpreted as interfering with due process, the minister said:

It is not intended to convince support for or opposition to the application.

So, it is very clear in my mind that the minister acted the way a member of Parliament should, in that he tried to represent the interests of one of his constituents whom he had never met before.

I represent the riding of Saint-Maurice; I was a minister for 18 years and I have now been Prime Minister for one year. Every time my constituents, who have been voting for me for 25 years, have problems, I always give them due consideration.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said this morning that he would not be as lenient towards other ministers guilty of similar actions.

How can the Prime Minister recognize the seriousness of that interference on the heritage minister's part, and not have the courage to impose the sanction he deserves, that is to expel him from Cabinet?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I reviewed the issue, I consulted experts in my office and in the government, and I have come to the conclusion that, under the circumstances, the hon. member can remain Minister of Canadian Heritage and keep serving Canadians.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when this government was elected the Prime Minister promised a new era of integrity, including a code of conduct for ministers and an ethics counsellor.

I ask the Prime Minister, in ushering in this new era of integrity specifically what guidelines were given to cabinet ministers in regard to communication with quasi-judicial regulatory bodies like the CRTC?