House of Commons Hansard #106 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was programs.
Stephen Harper Reform Calgary West, AB
Mr. Speaker, the House will note that the minister responded to concerns about partisan attacks on the premier of Ontario by taking more partisan attacks on the premier of Ontario and on the Reform Party.
Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is to the same minister. Does the minister intend to adopt the domineering and centralizing attitude of past Liberal governments, or will he recognize that his proposals have an impact on areas of exclusive provincial jurisdiction?
Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification
Mr. Speaker, I understand now why the hon. member from the Reform Party is supporting Bob Rae and the NDP. They are both at 10 per cent in the polls. They have something in common at this time.
The hon. member once again professes that he wants to express himself in the spirit of co-operation. If he had read the green paper-I would suggest he now has a whole week to go home and look at it carefully-he would see that we have indicated very clearly various options under which we are proposing decentralization, not centralization.
We talk about a new block funding arrangement on social assistance with the provinces. We talk about evolving many areas of training. We talk about how we can work to disentangle from education. Then the provinces would have clear authority over their educational institutions. These are the kinds of things that we want to propose.
It is time for all governments to begin to think about how they can decentralize their bureaucracies, whether they are federal or provincial, and put more power in the hands of people and communities because that is where the real decisions should be made.
Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC
Mr. Speaker, it may surprise you that my question is not directed to the Minister of Human Resources Development. In fact, it is my privilege to direct my question to the Minister of Justice.
At a recent international gathering of gynaecologists and obstetricians, Dr. Patricia Baird, formerly chairman of the Royal Commission of Inquiry on New Reproductive Technologies, once again emphasized the need for Canada to regulate this field.
When does the Minister of Justice intend to table in the House a bill to regulate practices connected with new reproductive technologies?
Diane Marleau LiberalMinister of Health
Mr. Speaker, I am delighted with the question. I thought members had forgotten me. As far as new reproductive technologies are concerned, we are now working on a regulatory framework.
I may add that we will have to work together with the provinces and other groups to deal with all the problems in this area. There are jurisdictional problems, and as members of the Bloc Quebecois are well aware, it is always important to talk to the provinces in order to avoid encroaching on their jurisdictions. So we are doing our job.
Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC
Mr. Speaker, I realize that because of the party-like atmosphere in the House for the past two days, everyone in this cabinet feels like getting up. I must point out to the Minister of Health that my question was directed to the Minister of Justice. I will put my second question to him, as I imagine he still remembers the first one and should be able to respond.
Would the Minister of Justice agree that, as pointed out by Dr. Baird, action is urgently needed to prohibit the marketing of human embryos and thus preclude the possibility of research activities that are not ethically sound?
Diane Marleau LiberalMinister of Health
Mr. Speaker, as I am the minister responsible for that particular file, I am answering. Perhaps the member across the way does not realize that.
We are working with other jurisdictions to regulate where we can and to bring forward a report on the whole issue of new reproductive technology as quickly as we possibly can.
Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary North, AB
Mr. Speaker, Canadians are beginning to suspect that the government is using consultation as an excuse for inaction. It says it is consulting on the GST, on immigration, on agriculture, yet when it does not get the answers it wants from Canadians it ignores them.
Why does the Minister of Human Resources Development keep talking about wanting to hear from Canadians when it is clear he only listens to the people he wants to hear?
Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification
Mr. Speaker, members of the Reform Party should begin to take the same line. Consistency has not been a virtue they have honoured very often, but I think it is about time.
On the one hand we have a member this morning asking: "Why don't you have more consultations? Why don't you broaden it up, make it genuine, give people a chance." Now we have the hon. member for Calgary North saying not to have consultations at all. They cannot have it both ways, but they seem to want to have it both ways.
I want to point out one important point. The primary consultation will be by a standing committee of the House of Commons which has representatives from all parties. If they bring an open mind to the issue and have a meeting of minds, then we can have a very genuine consultation.
Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary North, AB
Mr. Speaker, as we saw yesterday, the minister seems determined to attack proposals Reform did not make instead of defending proposals he did not make. When we talk about consultation, we talk about honest consultation, giving Canadians the truth and information including real costs, not rigged consultations and rigged government funded special interest groups.
How will this process be different? How will ordinary Canadians be heard?
Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification
Mr. Speaker, we heard yesterday from the leader of the Reform Party about how they have been consulting for a year on social programs.
The only result of that year long process was a statement by the hon. member for Calgary North that the Reform Party wants to cut $15 billion from social programs. He would not detail where, how or what. Reform members are now beginning to preach to us about putting the facts out. Where are their facts? Where is their study? Where is the result of their year long consultations?
I have one simple piece of advice for the hon. member. Join the standing committee on human resources. Go back to your constituency and talk to the people. As parliamentarians we have provided the best place for Canadians to be heard, in this Parliament and through its committees.
Francis Leblanc Liberal Cape Breton Highlands—Canso, NS
Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Human Resources Development.
Since the Liberals came to power, employment has gone up significantly. We saw that 339,000 jobs were created, most of them full-time jobs. More than 97,000 jobs were created in the Atlantic provinces alone. Which policies helped to bring about this remarkable turnaround?
Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification
Mr. Speaker, that is an important question. Unlike the negativism we have been hearing, we can now explain to Canadians the positive news. Since this government was elected there have been 330,000 new jobs, 90 per cent of which are full time jobs.
One of the most important elements is that Canadians have confidence and trust in the government. Therefore they know we will have a good economic future and they are prepared to invest.
Second, the infrastructure program has had a stimulating effect on the economy as have the employment programs we announced last year for young people; the youth services corps, the apprenticeship intern programs. The initiatives we have been taking recently like reducing UI premiums are now having a real impact.
We are able to prove to Canadians that with a Liberal government we know where the jobs are and it is shown by the evidence we have today.
Jim Gouk Reform Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC
Mr. Speaker, Bill C-22 has once again been rejected and sent to committee by the other place.
Will the Minister of Transport admit that this bill is not going to go away and that he has absolutely no plan as to how to deal with this ill-conceived legislation?
Alfonso Gagliano LiberalSecretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, the bill has not been rejected. As the rules allow it has been sent to committee. The committee will report again and the decision will be made by the other place.
Let me remind the hon. member that before the election the Prime Minister made it very clear that we would review the deal. However the maker of the deal decided to sign and went ahead despite the warnings. After we took office the Prime Minister reviewed the deal, found that it was not in the interests of Canadians and it was cancelled.
Why does the Reform Party want to have Canadian taxpayers pay the $440 million? I thought they were for deficit reduction.
Bernard St-Laurent Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice, if the Hon. Minister of Health allows it. We were amazed to learn this week that the judges of the Supreme Court now admit extreme drunkenness as a legitimate defence for sexual assault. This attitude suggests that people can commit serious crimes with impunity if they have consumed enough alcohol or other drugs.
My question is this: Does such a judgement mean that someone with a .30 blood alcohol level could be acquitted by a court while someone with a .09 level would be convicted? It does not make any sense.
Does the Minister of Justice agree that it makes no sense?
Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
Mr. Speaker, without agreeing to the interpretation put on that judgment by the hon. member I can tell him and the House that I am concerned about the implications of the judgment. I share some of the concerns that have been expressed during the week in the wake of its release.
The whole general part of the Criminal Code has been under study for some decades actually. However in the coming weeks we are going to be releasing a discussion paper with respect to it. It includes the question of defences, including self-intoxication. We are going to make proposals for public discussion including the possibility that we can avoid this controversy by creating a criminal offence of criminal intoxication leading to misconduct.
That approach which was discussed by the Law Reform Commission as long as eight years ago has its merits. It has disadvantages as well. We will hear during the discussion period how people feel about that approach and we will learn from it.
In any event, I want to tell the hon. member that we are aware of the concerns arising from the judgment last week. We are examining alternative ways to ensure public safety.
Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB
Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Veterans Affairs.
I have been informed by the department that it is presently working on pension reform legislation that will greatly fast track veterans applications and I appreciate that. However does the minister recognize that additional changes must be made to Bill C-84? If so, will these changes be put on the legislative agenda? Time is running out for the merchant navy veterans.
David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs
Mr. Speaker, we are looking at ways to speed up the processing of veterans claims. For too long veterans have found they have had to wait two or three years before particular decisions are adjudicated. We are looking at making structural and legislative changes. The hon. member and the House will be advised in due course as to when we will bring forward those changes.
David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs
Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 32(2) and an undertaking I made last Monday in the House, I would like to table in both official languages a document entitled: "Executive Floor Refit".
Canadian Companies In South AfricaRoutine Proceedings
Northumberland Ontario
Liberal
Christine Stewart LiberalSecretary of State (Latin America and Africa)
Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to table a document entitled: "The Canadian Companies in South Africa". It describes the code of conduct and the practices of Canadian companies for the period July 1991-94 and I present it in both official languages.
Christine Stewart LiberalSecretary of State (Latin America and Africa)
Mr. Speaker, I would like to report on my visit to Eritrea, Ethiopia and Egypt in September. My participation there preceded the Cairo Population and Development Conference.
Eritrea and Ethiopia are countries in which Canada directly, and indirectly through our non-government organizations, has a long and important involvement most recently through periods of drought and conflict. Egypt as you well know is a crucial country in the politics of the Middle East.
Let me begin my comments with reflections on Eritrea and Ethiopia. These two countries were cut from Canada's bilateral assistance program by the previous government. By failing to emphasize that humanitarian assistance was exempt from the cut, Canada appeared to be abandoning Eritrea and Ethiopia just when peace was finally being realized after 30 years of civil war.
My visit provided an opportunity to convey several important messages, the first being that Canada remains committed to maintaining bilateral relationships, if not assistance programs, with both countries. The second message was that while future bilateral assistance and partnership programs will await the outcome of the foreign policy review and be a function of our overall budgetary position, we will continue to contribute to the efforts of these countries to rebuild.
By rebuild, we mean two things. The first is to help them make the shift from relief to recovery. The second is to help them begin building structures and institutions such as the constitution by which they will govern themselves more democratically and we hope more peacefully.
Within the February budgetary allocations we have been able to provide $18 million in food security to Ethiopia and $7 million to Eritrea this year. In addition we have provided $400,000 in assistance to Eritrean refugees returning from the Sudan. We have established a $500,000 fund for democratic development activities in each country.
While there I applauded the efforts of the Ethiopians and Eritreans to promote regional peace and stability, certainly not an easy task. Both countries have been prominent in the Sudan peace talks which Canada is supporting. My meetings with the secretary general of the OAU, Salim Salim, the president of Ethiopia, Meles Zenawi, and Eritrea's minister of foreign affairs, Petros Solomon, touched on this issue.
I want to inform my colleagues that much more attention will be needed by western countries to support Africa's own efforts to bring peace to the horn of Africa. Within our budgetary and human resources limitations, Canada will continue to seek ways to facilitate this peace process as well as to help refugees in the region.
Now for Egypt, a country with one foot in Africa and another in Asia. Over the past decade Egypt has taken on the role of bridge builder in middle eastern affairs. Its place on the frontlines has drawn it into many conflicts and the government is currently struggling to liberalize the economy while dealing with sporadic acts of terrorism. Rural Egypt where I also had the opportunity to travel is close to Africa in its poverty and in the severity of its ecological crisis.
Canada is helping the Egyptians deal with their most precious resource, the River Nile. I journeyed to Qanater to see the strategic research unit on the second cataract of the Nile north of Cairo. This is only one project in which Canada is involved bilaterally but from conversations with senior Egyptian officials, one that is very much appreciated.
In keeping with a longstanding commitment to help women in Egypt, Canada sponsors a range of projects. A creative effort is being undertaken in the Qena region in southern Egypt by the Foundation for International Training. It is trying to open the banking system of the country to women who are small scale entrepreneurs. In tiny workshops, in back rooms of houses and even in courtyards women have started small enterprises with backing from CIDA through the Foundation for International Training. The results to date not surprisingly for those of us familiar with the Grameen Bank, are a very high repayment record and a rapidly growing clientele.
It was in these crowded homes and workshops that the hidden tragedy of rural Africa was revealed: the number of young girls who are not in school. UNICEF statistics tell us that 80 per cent of girl children in Egypt reach at least grade 5 in primary school. For Ethiopia the figure is only 10 per cent.
On my last day in Egypt I announced on behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs that Canada is contributing $14.9 million to support primary education for girls in 15 African countries, to be channelled through UNICEF. I believe the education of young girls in Africa is the touchstone in a brighter future for the whole population. There is growing consensus that donor dollars spent on education of young girls has a positive impact not only on their lives, but on their families and on their communities. It was my privilege to be the bearer of this message of support to Africa.
Philippe Paré Bloc Louis-Hébert, QC
Mr. Speaker, I would first of all like to thank the Secretary of State for Latin America and Africa for the report she just gave us on her recent trip to Eritrea, Ethiopia and Egypt and on Canada's aid initiatives in those countries.
In the first place, let me point out the respect which the Secretary of State has for the work of the joint committee that is reviewing Canada's foreign policy. I would like to thank her for this. Her colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, shows little respect for the committee's work, which he himself initiated, need I remind you, and which is not yet finished; he is making choices and setting foreign policies that take for granted the results of a major review which is not yet complete. At least the Secretary of State has the decency to tell us that she intends to wait for the committee's findings before developing new bilateral aid and partnership programs.
That being said, I think that Canada's efforts and initiatives, of which the Secretary of State has just informed us, should be well received. Canada must provide continuing tangible support for the colossal efforts that the Africans are making to establish peace and democracy in the Horn of Africa.
I would like to take a moment to talk about Eritrea. As you know, Eritrea became a sovereign state following the April 1993 referendum, in which Eritreans answered a very clear question: "Do you want Eritrea to become a sovereign and independent state?" The result was dazzling. Over 90 per cent of the vote was for sovereignty.
Canada was one of the first countries to recognize the achievement of independence in Eritrea and we should be proud of this. Canada must make a clear commitment to recognize such democratic decisions when these are made in a context that meets criteria that appear to comply with the rules of democracy.
This being said, we think that the government of Canada should feel a special duty to Eritrea, in that it represents a promise of peace and stability in the Horn of Africa region. In our view, this would warrant the allocation of special assistance to a long-term development and recovery program. Indeed, Canada should undertake to grant substantial assistance to this sustainable development and recovery program.
I listened to the hon. Secretary of State as she told us about the strategic research unit in Qanater, north of Cairo, one of the projects in which Canada is involved. I sincerely feel this is a step in the right direction. In fact, sustainable development must be an objective that transcends Canadian foreign policy. I would even go as far as to say it should be the basic objective of Canadian official development assistance.
We welcome the Canadian government commitment to help Ethiopia and Eritrea make the transition from humanitarian assistance to economic recovery. One of the main goals of our international assistance must indeed be to promote the development of self-reliance in assisted countries. We have to help these countries set up structures and institutions, including a constitution which will allow them to govern themselves more democratically and peacefully. The Secretary of State recognizes this essential condition.
Finally, we must absolutely, through dialogue and co-operation programs, seek to reinforce respect for human rights, democratic development and good government. The promotion of sustainable human development and human rights must be at the centre of our policies. The Bloc Quebecois insists on that aspect. We feel that these factors are the key elements of any Canadian foreign policy.
The commitment made by the Secretary of State towards Egyptian women and the announcement of a $14.9 million contribution to primary education for girls in 15 African countries, through UNICEF, is a step in that direction and we applaud that initiative.
In conclusion, we believe that the government must nevertheless make other concrete commitments, including the promotion, through existing Canadian and UN programs, of the development of Erytrean NGOs and the use of local expertise in reconstruction and rehabilitation initiatives. These efforts must be pursued.
Chuck Strahl Reform Fraser Valley East, BC
Mr. Speaker, we welcome the secretary of state back from her overseas trip. We are glad she has arrived safely.
From our perspective the secretary of state speaks on several positive developments. On behalf of the government she has spoken supportive words for the most needy people of the world.
We are glad the government has committed some more funds to Eritrea and Ethiopia, which have been areas of such heart rending famine and war in recent years. We need to help rebuild their shattered economies and make peace between neighbouring countries in that region. We applaud the government in its efforts.
The secretary of state seems also to imply that the government may or will restore bilateral assistance to these countries. We are certainly not opposed to that as long as the governments in those countries do not siphon off our aid for military or other purposes.
Because of my association with the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, I do receive regular news bulletins about, for instance, the government of Ethiopia. There are encouraging signs of a trend toward democracy and stable, market oriented businesses in those newsletters.
I do hope that these reports accurately reflect a growing reality.
I wish to contrast her words with the current direction of the foreign affairs standing committee which at this moment is drafting its final report to the minister. Although I do not know what the final report will look like, and these matters are all a matter of negotiation, I am very concerned that the committee may fall to the lowest common denominator in order to try to please everybody and offer very few concrete recommendations in its report.
I am concerned, for instance, that there may not be a legislative mandate for CIDA and that the committee will not recommend that our shrinking aid dollars go to the most needy people of the world. Examples of what she has brought to our attention today is the direction we need to head in the future.
I am sure that someone in the minister's office, as well as the parliamentary secretary, is listening to this speech. I trust that whoever is listening will take note, especially in the office of the Minister of Foreign Affairs. I believe we need a very strong report, one that will reflect the secretary of state's words in support of the impoverished masses in places like Eritrea, Ethiopia and Egypt.
Ministers, including this minister and the foreign affairs minister, need to speak to their Liberal counterparts on the foreign affairs committee and encourage them not to be tentative in their recommendations but to be firm in their support of the poorest people of the world.
With regard to Egypt, there is no comment about the minister's participation in the population conference in Cairo. No doubt this is because of the contentious issues that were raised there. I just want to say a word about that conference. It is a well documented fact that the best determiners of population growth are the industrialization of a country and the health and education of its citizens.
The best thing we can do therefore is to concentrate a good portion of our foreign aid on basic health and education in the third world. CIDA spends $120 million a year on Third World higher education degrees like masters degrees and doctorates. I believe we are developing, maybe wisely, but we are putting an increasing emphasis on the ruling classes in those countries where there are just a very few well educated people but the masses are ignorant and unhealthy.
I note that CIDA also gave no less than $28 million this year to the International Planned Parenthood Federation. I trust that most of those dollars will go to the basic health and education in the Third World rather than to coercive population control measures and abortion which proved to be such divisive issues last month in Cairo.
The way to avoid these negative practices is simple: educate the needy and upgrade basic health services for the general population.
That is why we applaud the minister's travelling in rural Egypt, going to where the problems are the worst. We appreciate the programs she described to educate girls and we are very supportive of those as long as we do not also forget that boys also need basic education.
We do not approve of every trip that this government takes, far from it, but in this case we think that this particular trip was very worth while in affirming Canada's support for the most needy people in the world. No doubt the minister's heart was touched with compassion by the poverty that she saw and no doubt her heart was also filled with satisfaction in seeing the difference that Canada can make even if it is in little ways.
I can only hope that the minister will communicate the things that are in her heart to her Liberal colleagues on the foreign affairs standing committee and that she will use her influence to strengthen the committee's recommendations in these areas.
Jean-Robert Gauthier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34, I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, the Report of the Canadian Section of the International Assembly of French-Speaking Parliamentarians on the second Jeux de la Francophonie, held in Paris, from July 5 to 13, 1994.
Peter Milliken LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present the 39th Report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs regarding the list of associate and permanent members of committees. With leave of the House, I intend to move for concurrence in this report later this day.