Mr. Speaker, the creation of gun control legislation in a democracy places an obligation upon the government to balance the right of the individual to own property, in this case firearms, with the responsibility of the state to protect members of society from the dangerous or illegal use of firearms.
Like many Canadians, Reform members support gun control legislation based on common sense. In fact we fully support any and all gun regulations that will enhance public safety by reducing the criminal use of firearms. However, the onus is on the Minister of Justice to prove to us and to Canadians that current regulations have reduced the criminal use of firearms and that his proposed restrictions will be successful in this regard before we support the final product.
In his 1993 report the Auditor General of Canada expressed some concern about the effectiveness of Bill C-17. He questioned the motivating factor behind it, concluding that Kim Campbell proceeded for reasons of public policy and without a statistical base.
The Auditor General stated: "Our review of the new regulations indicated that important data needed to assess the potential benefits and future effectiveness of the regulations were not available at the time the regulations were drafted. Because of this, we believe it is important that the measures chosen by the government be evaluated at the earliest opportunity".
Although we had asked the minister whether he had taken the advice of the Auditor General we never were quite sure of the answer until today. Given the proposals the Minister of Justice has introduced, I suspect he may have ignored the recommendations of the Auditor General and proceeded to implement his own agenda for gun control.
In November of last year the minister stated that only police officers and the military should have guns. In respect to the minister he has clarified that remark to me since. Nevertheless, I see this sentiment still reflected in some of the proposals presented today.
The minister has proposed the banning of certain handguns from society without statistical justification for doing so. He is saying to law-abiding Canadians that if you do not use your handgun the government will take it away from you. I think this is wrong and we will stand opposed to this if it appears in the final legislation.
The minister has introduced mandatory minimum sentences of four years in prison in addition to a lifetime prohibition against the possession of a restricted weapon when committing any of the ten specific violent offences with a firearm. He has introduced a new mandatory minimum jail sentence for possession of a stolen firearm and possession of a loaded restricted weapon without a permit. The use of imitation or replica firearms in the commission of an offence will draw a minimum mandatory sentence of one year in jail under section 85 of the Criminal Code.
It is good to see that the efforts of the Reform members have not gone unnoticed by the justice minister. It is indeed encouraging to see the Minister of Justice following our lead.
On June 15 private member's Bill C-260 of my colleague from Surrey-White Rock-South Langley was read for the first time in the House. That bill expands the present offence of using a firearm in the commission of an offence by including replica firearms. It also increases the penalty for a first offence from one to fourteen years to five to fourteen years and for a second offence from three to fourteen years to ten years to life.
That same bill establishes the theft of a firearm as a new offence with a penalty of three to fourteen years. It also creates a new offence for the unlawful importation of a firearm for the purpose of selling it or using it in the commission of an offence. This offence would carry a penalty of three to fourteen years.
Finally, a person who sells a firearm other than by the process proscribed by law would be deemed to have aided in an offence later committed by the purchaser of the weapon.
Reform's position on justice has been very clear and consistent from the start. We firmly believe that the justice system should provide for harsh punishment as a deterrent for committing crimes and for just punishments once a crime has been committed.
The minister's position with regard to deterrence is however questionable. In debates on the Young Offenders Act, the minister has stated that he does not believe harsher penalties to be a deterrent to preventing youth crime. It seemed he had to be pushed to raise the maximum penalty for murder from five to ten years. This was the only area under the Young Offenders Act where the penalties were increased to any substantial degree.
Therefore, I place this on the record. The justice minister has been inconsistent in his support of a deterrent principle in criminal justice.
As well as supporting the criminal sanctions created by this proposed legislation, we also support the efforts of the government in regard to smuggling and the stiffer penalties created for illegally importing and trafficking firearms. However, we will remain sceptical about whether or not the government will be successful in catching gun smugglers.
To date, the government has not been successful in catching drug and alcohol smugglers. In fact there has been an increase in smuggling activity in this country which I have reason to believe in some cases is a result of the prohibitively high taxes and prices found in Canada.
The only way the government was able to stop the proliferation of tobacco smuggling into this country was to reduce the taxes, thereby making it an inexpensive item that was not as lucrative on the black market. In other words, it was not able to deal with the criminals who were involved in that illegal trade. It simply reduced the taxes on cigarettes and was able to reduce the smuggling by using that means.
We also have some concerns regarding whether the border controls will be effective, given that Bill C-34 has granted the Yukon Nation self-government. From statements the Minister of Justice made on October 4 while in Yukon, we have reason to believe that special legislation may be granted to reserves.
Since a number of reserves are on the Canada-U.S. border and the minister of revenue has stated that the U.S. is awash with weapons, how does the minister propose to deal with smuggling and black market activities that is already so prevalent on reserves adjacent to the international boundary? In this regard the proposals of the Minister of Justice do not go far enough and we have some concerns in this area. What use are the penalties on border controls if there are other areas that may be left wide open?
Reform does not believe in tinkering and amending only parts of the system. We believe in full reforms which are aimed at the total picture, not just one small aspect of the problem. This is true with our policies on immigration, deficit cutting, social policy reform, and other matters.
I now turn to the area which poses the greatest concern to me, my colleagues and constituents and that is the registration of shotguns and rifles.
A confidential report commissioned by the research section of the Department of Justice clearly points out the defects in the current handgun registration system. In fact it identifies approximately 30 problems with the registration system. The system has been in place for 60 years and it has failed to work. I cannot see how the minister can justify extending this failed system. How can he honestly tell Canadians it will reduce the criminal use of firearms when the criminal use of handguns has been on the increase?
The statistical justification for the registration of rifles and shotguns has not been made available to us in these proposals. How can we and how can Canadians in the absence of such information be confident that universal registration will in fact reduce the criminal use of firearms and thereby make society safer? We cannot.
We cannot afford ineffective legislation, particularly in the area of criminal justice. We must have sound and proven controls in place that ensure public safety.
On the banning of handguns, where is the information and where are the statistics that the Minister of Justice used to justify such a draconian measure?
It has been proven by various sources that gun controls do not prevent criminals from getting firearms on the black market. They do however make it more profitable for individuals to deal in the black market of these items. Repeatedly governments in this country have learned that prohibitive or restrictive measures lead to an underground market where people thrive on the challenge of obtaining something illegal and where ruthless entrepreneurs profit tremendously.
We witnessed this years ago with the prohibition of liquor and we have seen it for years with the trafficking of cocaine, speed, marijuana and other narcotics into our country. Guns are not immune from the underground economy. In fact trade in that market has not been diminished but rather enhanced by government action.
I observe the minister has outlawed hand-held crossbows and the registration of other crossbows has been put into place through these proposals. What is the justification for this? Does this not indicate an unrealistic degree of fear or apprehension underlying this legislation? I think it does. More murders are committed with knives than with handguns. Are we to see the justice minister move to the registration of these weapons?
We look forward in the coming months to the minister tabling the legislation. We assure him and the people of Canada that we will support legislation that is aimed at the criminal activity involving firearms. The case for such action has been evident far too long in this country. However, we will be closely scrutinizing that legislation which is a further encroachment upon the rights of law-abiding Canadians.
In closing I would like to quote from a letter written to me by a loyal and dedicated Canadian. He stated: "The people of Canada will not accept the suppression of our rights and freedoms by criminals and they will not accept the suppression of those same rights and freedoms by our government".