House of Commons Hansard #137 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was amendment.

Topics

Social Program ReformOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification

Mr. Speaker, the fact is that on January 1 the premium rate on unemployment insurance drops down to $3 per hundred. We have already taken the step we committed to in the last budget and the premium rate is coming down.

While the hon. member is exaggerating a number of figures, I remind her that she should recognize at the end of this year the cumulative deficit for the UI fund will be over $3 billion. Until we get that cumulative deficit down, because it is a real drag on the economy, we will not be in a position to make changes. By the time of the next budget I am sure we will be in a position to have a better report or a better analysis. In the meantime we have to move to get that $3 billion deficit out of the way.

Government Of CanadaOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, one of the promises in the red book was for more transparent government. I have not read the fine print but I do not think that meant government leaks.

Today the industry minister's orange paper takes it place with the GST report, the HRD green book, the justice minister's action plan on gun control and the defence white paper. All were conveniently leaked to the media before the official announcements were made. The government's complete disregard for Parliament reinforces fears of Liberal arrogance.

My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Why is the government showing such disdain for the House of Commons and what is it doing to end these leaks?

Government Of CanadaOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Ottawa South Ontario

Liberal

John Manley LiberalMinister of Industry

Mr. Speaker, I assure the hon. member that it was out of a desire to present the next paper in our series of papers on the economy that I decided to make the presentation in the House of Commons this afternoon, which I will be doing immediately following question period.

For that matter, I want the hon. member to know that there is no obligation either under the rules of the House or otherwise to make such a presentation in the House. I want to assure him that we will be very interested in hearing his support for a plan which should help build a more innovative economy.

Government Of CanadaOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, the government totally missed the point.

The problem is that leaks are occurring and they are unprecedented. Leaks to the media must be at the top of every government communications plan. The government leaks like a badly fitting diaper. The government is making a mockery of the House of Commons with every proposal it produces. While opposition MPs are sworn to secrecy and they are stuck in departmental lockups, Liberal spin doctors are out descending on the media like locusts.

My supplementary question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Are these leaks part of a deliberate communications strategy on the part of the government?

Government Of CanadaOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Ottawa South Ontario

Liberal

John Manley LiberalMinister of Industry

Mr. Speaker, I have a certain amount of experience with fitting diapers. We always preferred the reusable rather than the disposable in our household.

I assure the hon. member it would be of very great concern if information were leaked that could either affect the markets or could lead to somebody prospering inadvertently or indirectly. In the case of the information I have seen published as a result of these documents having reached the public domain, no such case will occur.

I assure him that the participation of members of Parliament in discussion coming from the proposals we put forward in the action plan is of great importance to us.

Government Of CanadaOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, I could quote instances when the Liberals were on this side of the House and they condemned the government for leaks. They are promoting more leaks that are far worse than the previous government did.

Time and time again they place political strategy ahead of parliamentary procedure and have shown no respect for the House.

They seem to think that polls give them a blank cheque to do as they please. I have news for this leak infested government. Reform MPs are tired of its arrogance and it is starting to wear thin on Canadians too.

Will the government investigate this process of leaking proposals and reports before they are even tabled in the House? Will it take the appropriate and necessary action?

Government Of CanadaOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Ottawa South Ontario

Liberal

John Manley LiberalMinister of Industry

Mr. Speaker, the point is being missed here. Most of the matters I have seen reported in the newspapers today were matters which were debated and discussed in various fora over quite a number of months. In many ways what we see today is the culmination of many months of consultation, of discussion and of thought which have been engaged in among members of Parliament as well as in the House.

I know the member is concerned about this because he recognizes the strategic importance of this document. I hope for that reason he will take the opportunity afforded to him to study it, to read it, to make further suggestions. I believe it plays an important part in the gradual unfolding of an active government policy on economic development in Canada.

Social Program ReformOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Bloc

Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

More than two months after he tabled his working paper on social program reform and two weeks before the public consultations end, the minister has tabled only four of the nine technical papers that are to lay out the directions of his plan. This delay suggests the worst, especially as far as education and welfare are concerned.

In view of the urgency of making all the relevant information public, so that a real debate can take place on this reform which will directly affect millions of Quebecers and Canadians, how does the minister justify this delay?

Social Program ReformOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification

Mr. Speaker, I believe the rest of the papers will be tabled publicly within the next 10 days.

Social Program ReformOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Bloc

Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, does the minister not agree that this delay and the lack of information in the papers already tabled, as the Auditor General pointed out, are because the minister has gone ahead with this reform blindly, just so that he can make the cuts required by the Minister of Finance?

Social Program ReformOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification

Mr. Speaker, that may be the case but I just read a large scale national survey this week. It showed that 96 per cent of Canadians believe major changes have to be made in social policy. It may be that the hon. member does not understand but 96 per cent of Canadians are in favour of what we are doing.

Government SpendingOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Reform

Werner Schmidt Reform Okanagan Centre, BC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry. It appears the industry strategy seems to be one of shuffling money around, not reduction in spending. Yet this morning the Minister of Industry stated on "Canada A.M." that his departmental budget would be reduced by as much as 50 per cent by the end of the third year. That is two years from now or less than that.

Can the minister tell us specifically what will be cut?

Government SpendingOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Ottawa South Ontario

Liberal

John Manley LiberalMinister of Industry

Mr. Speaker, I will not disclose that. As the member knows we are involved in an ongoing process of program review which is in effect, as the Prime Minister announced in September in Quebec City, a basic review of each and every program in every department and agency of the Government of Canada from bottom up.

I believe this review is important. It is a vital part of our own plan in order to achieve our objective of reaching 3 per cent of GDP as the level of the deficit by the third year of the mandate. In the industry department we are prepared to make the changes that, as the member indicates, will result in an overall budget decrease of almost 50 per cent by the third year of the mandate.

Government SpendingOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Reform

Werner Schmidt Reform Okanagan Centre, BC

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly the answer I expected the minister to give.

I think it is about time that we get down to some specifics rather than these generalizations. It has been very clear that Canadian business has said the best way for government to create a competitive environment is to reduce taxes. Yet there is no such statement in the industrial strategy.

Why will the minister not make a definitive commitment to reducing taxes?

Government SpendingOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Ottawa South Ontario

Liberal

John Manley LiberalMinister of Industry

Mr. Speaker, because one of the happiest days of my life so far was the day I was told I was not Minister of Finance.

Canada Labour CodeOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Bloc

Bernard St-Laurent Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

On September 19, here on Parliament Hill, the minister promised Ogilvie Mills workers that, by December, he would table amendments to the Canada Labour Code, introducing anti-scab provisions. Yesterday, the minister reneged on his promise, giving as a pretext that his department was preparing another bill on pay equity.

How can the minister justify his about-face regarding the need to introduce anti-scab provisions in the Canada Labour Code? How can he justify his about-face, except by an obvious lack of political courage?

Canada Labour CodeOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification

Mr. Speaker, no, it just means that we are doing a very thorough job of consulting with business, labour unions and other parties that would be affected. We are trying to do a major rewrite of labour codes. I have assigned the assistant deputy minister for labour to undertake that process. He is busily engaged at the present time reviewing the various aspects and a fairly broad based set of proposals. As soon as that is ready we will present the appropriate legislation to the House of Commons.

Canada Labour CodeOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Bloc

Bernard St-Laurent Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Mr. Speaker, how can the minister justify his refusal to table a bill before Christmas by saying that there is not enough time, when all that is required is a few amendments to the Canada Labour Code?

Canada Labour CodeOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should know that it is not as easy as that. Certainly our experience over the last several months is that when we table amendments the members opposite usually hold up that legislation for weeks and months on end.

I have asked our assistant deputy minister to make sure that we have a very carefully assessed, very carefully judged set of reforms and proposals to make to the labour code.

As the Minister of Industry put in his paper today, the reform of the workplace, reform and modernizing our whole labour relations is the key to economic growth and development. Therefore we want to make sure that we do it right.

Canada Labour CodeOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

The Speaker

I would encourage all of us to listen to both the questions and the answers. It takes time to both pose and answer but I would ask you to curtail both the questions and the answers.

Small Business LoansOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Reform

Ian McClelland Reform Edmonton Southwest, AB

Mr. Speaker, the government is reported to be increasing the total value of loans it guarantees under the Small Businesses Loans Act to $12 billion, an increase of 300 per cent. The program now loses about $100 million a year.

Would the Minister of Industry tell the House why taxpayers should underwrite Canadian banks by assuming liabilities that should properly fall to entrepreneurs and banks, not taxpayers?

Small Business LoansOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Ottawa South Ontario

Liberal

John Manley LiberalMinister of Industry

Mr. Speaker, there are really two questions there. The first one is why should there be a Small Businesses Loans Act program in the first place. The answer to that is very simply that the primary reason for getting loan capital to many small businesses is to provide some government guarantee, thereby offsetting the fact that many small businesses lack the security they require in order to otherwise borrow from the banks.

In answer to the question about subsidies, I would like to assure the hon. member that we are proposing changes to the SBLA program and further review which will move that program to one which is fully cost recoverable because I agree with him that it should not be an indirect subsidy to the banks.

Small Business LoansOral Question Period

2:40 p.m.

Reform

Ian McClelland Reform Edmonton Southwest, AB

Mr. Speaker, the business community and banks cannot be blamed for taking advantage of government largess. If we are dumb enough to give it to them they are going to be smart enough to take it. We have to put a stop to it.

We do not have a revenue problem in our country. To paraphrase a colloquialism, which is not intended to anybody in this House certainly, it is government spending stupid that we have to get under control. It is those three or four words.

The business community has time and time again told the government to reduce the tax burden on business and individuals. What specific measure has the Minister of Industry taken that will reduce government spending which will in turn reduce

government borrowing which will in turn reduce interest rates and taxes?

Small Business LoansOral Question Period

2:40 p.m.

Ottawa South Ontario

Liberal

John Manley LiberalMinister of Industry

Let me say, Mr. Speaker, that I am sure the member will agree with the thrust of the document which we will be tabling today. It does recognize the fact that the key to continued economic growth and job creation is going to be the private sector and that it is important for government to do as much as it can to stay out of the way of the growth and job creation potential of the private sector.

That is how we intend to move the economy forward so that as the cycles go up and down overall we see a general gain in employment levels as well as in productivity and the economy. That is the key to it.

Do we need to reduce spending? Yes, we need to reduce spending. That was the purpose behind the consultation process that my colleague, the Minister of Finance, launched in this House and in the finance committee a few weeks ago. It is toward that end that we will be working in this February's budget.

Bovine SomatotropinOral Question Period

2:40 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Bellehumeur Bloc Berthier—Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

The Director of the Bureau of Veterinary Drugs at Health Canada, who is currently on leave without pay, is lobbying MPs, on behalf of a group of private drug companies, regarding the virtues of bovine somatotropin.

Does the minister realize that this paradoxical situation in which her department finds itself, with a senior civil servant responsible for the Bureau of Veterinary Drugs now acting as a lobbyist for drug companies interested in marketing somatotropin?