Debates of Dec. 7th, 1994

Reproductive Technologies

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, it is passing strange that members of the Bloc Quebecois will on the one hand say: "We want a separate country; we want to do everything by ourselves", and on the other hand when it suits them will say: "We want you to impose your will on the provinces". If they want us to impose our will on the provinces in relation to new reproductive technologies, we will be glad to, but that is not the way the government normally operates.

We work with the provinces and the stakeholders. We have done a considerable amount of work and we will continue to do that work to address these very complex issues.

Justice

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on Friday I asked the Solicitor General about the escape of Ian John Hutton from a halfway house in Vaughan, Ontario. It was apparent that the minister had not been informed of Hutton's unlawful absence.

Could the Solicitor General explain why a murderer, who is classified on CPIC as being violent and an escape risk, could be unlawfully at large for four days without the minister or the media being notified?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, this matter was put in the hands of the police. It is their responsibility to have this person returned to custody.

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

When I asked the minister on Friday why a murderer who was classified as being violent and an escape risk was serving his sentence at a halfway house, the minister replied that it was a serious matter.

Given the fact that the seriousness of the matter has been compounded by the non-notification of the escape, is the minister prepared to hold a public inquiry into the matter?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, this is a matter based on a decision made by the parole board which operates at arm's length from the minister and from the House of Commons.

I will be happy to draw the hon. member's comments to the attention of the parole board.

Banks

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. Mr. Minister, not only have the six largest banks made record-

[The Speaker]

I would ask the hon. member to direct his question through the Chair.

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden, SK]

I apologize, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Not only have the six largest banks made record profits of over $4 billion, but they are also holding Canadians for ransom with high interest rates.

A study done by his own department points out that the top four banks hold 53 per cent of depositor assets. Inflation is at an all-time low, yet we are still being stung with a high interest rate policy that will stifle our economy and add to our debt.

Will the Minister of Finance direct the finance committee to hold a full investigation into bank practices and profits to ensure the banks pay their fair share of taxes?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, it is certainly the intention of the government that the banks pay their fair share of taxes. As the member knows, in addition to the normal corporate tax there is an additional large corporation tax imposed upon the banks. In addition to that there is a tax on the capital of all financial institutions.

We are obviously very concerned about the health of the economy. There have been extensive committee reports involving the banking system. I thought the industry committee came up with a very good report this year. The finance committee has as well looked at these issues. Unfortunately I am not in a position to direct the finance committee, but I obviously would be prepared to co-operate with it in any way, shape or form.

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is for the minister.

If the minister will not direct the Standing Committee on Finance to investigate and make a recommendation to the House of Commons, will the minister give assurances to the House that the Department of Finance will ensure that the banks are at least paying their fair share of taxes on the huge profits they are earning and that they are not gouging consumers with high interest rates on loans, mortgages and agricultural and business loans.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, again I am sure the hon. member knows that according to the rules of the House I cannot direct the finance committee. In fact I can tell it very little.

I can assure the hon. member the Department of Finance will certainly make sure that the banks live up to proper business practices and that the banks pay their fair share of taxes.

Employment Equity

[Shaughnessy Cohen, Liberal, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

Although it is 1994 it seems that the Stone Age has returned to certain quarters in the House. We have listened to the Neanderthal ramblings of the third party on social programs, women and violence, and employment equity.

Will the President of the Treasury Board please explain slowly, so that our friends opposite will understand, why it is only fair to apply employment equity to the public service?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, employment equity was established by a Liberal government over a decade ago in the public service.

It was established because we wanted to ensure that the public service reflected the kind of population Canada has today and that it would remove unfair barriers to women, to aboriginals, to visible minorities and to the disabled from being able to gain employment in the public service. We wanted to make sure we created a level playing field.

For those who are concerned about reverse discrimination, let me point out that over half the employees of the public service are able-bodied males and half of all hirings in recent years have been able-bodied males.

The bottom line is that the merit principle is a cornerstone of hiring in the public service.

Sexual Orientation

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice. We have learned that the justice minister will not be tabling the bill to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation for what he calls strategic reasons. And yet this was one of the commitments made in the red book, and repeated by the Prime Minister. The Minister of Justice had promised to take action by the spring, then by June, September, the fall, and now he is talking of another postponement.

Are we to understand that the Minister of Justice is completely paralyzed by the Flintstone wing of his party, which systematically opposes any bill to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member will be happy to know that both this minister and the government are moving quite freely, thank you very much. We are not paralysed by anything in this connection.

I want to take this opportunity to emphasize the commitment of this government in that regard. As I have said, as the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have said, this government is committed to the introduction of amendments to the Human Rights Act to add sexual orientation as grounds on which discrimination is prohibited. I think it is not so much a question of timing. It is a question of principle and commitment and that bill will be introduced in this House.

Gun Control

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister has just said that this government works together with the provinces.

My question is for the justice minister. The legislative assembly of Saskatchewan has voted unanimously to oppose any further gun controls and he has had a letter to this effect. The chief law enforcement officer for the province of Saskatchewan is concerned about how he will be able to enforce gun control laws which the majority of voters in the province know are unfair and unnecessary to control violent crime.

The minister said he has consulted. He should be aware he has a major problem. Has he taken a head count of all of the justice ministers in this country to find out which of them support his proposals and which do not?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we do not govern by head count. We govern by what is right.

This government's assessment of what is right was demonstrated last week in writing when I tabled our decision document in the House of Commons. That is this government's assessment of what is right.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I am sure all hon. members will want to hear the response of the minister.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

In concluding, Mr. Speaker, I want the hon. member to know that I have a decent respect for the opinion of my provincial and territorial counterparts but in the final analysis this is a matter for this federal government to deal with. We are showing leadership on the issue. Our decisions were announced last week.

[The Speaker]

I have a question of privilege, followed by a point of order. The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands on a question of privilege.

Privilege

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a very important question of privilege that touches on my ability to represent my riding in this House.

Yesterday all hon. members received, I believe from Your Honour, a book entitled The Prime Ministers of Canada . It is a green book presented by the House of Commons and the National Archives of Canada.

I was appalled when I opened the book and read on the page describing my distinguished predecessor, Sir John A. Macdonald, that he represented three constituencies at various times: Marquette, Manitoba; Victoria, British Columbia; Carleton and Lennox, Ontario.

Everybody knows that Sir John A. Macdonald was the member for Kingston. He was first elected as the member for Kingston in 1844 and he served in the legislature of the United Canadas until Confederation. From 1867 until 1891 he was a member for Kingston in this House except-

[The Speaker]

I knew that. I am not sure it is a question of privilege but I am sure that he does have a grievance and I undertake to have a look at the book and if I can do anything at all to change it I will do so.

If it is necessary I will get back to the House but I think I would like to let that matter sleep. If the hon. member wants to see me later in my chambers I will be there.

Points Of Order

[John Harvard, Liberal, Winnipeg—St. James, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I beg your indulgence to raise a point of order which touches on a ruling made by the Chair in debate during private members' hour last night.

I want to assure you off the top, Mr. Speaker, that I intend no disrespect toward you. I seek only explanation and clarification.

In debate last night I used the word "meanspirited". That word was ruled by the Speaker as being unparliamentary. I must say that I was surprised but I withdrew the word immediately.

Mr. Speaker, I am looking for guidance and clarification from you because I do not find the offending word in Beauchesne's and I wonder whether we have wandered unintentionally into territory where there is undue restriction on expression in this House.

I appreciate that the Chair made similar rulings on November 23 and November 25 past, but my examination of those rulings leads me to believe they are based more or less on context. In other words, I do not see "meanspirited"-