Mr. Speaker, I am following up on a question I asked the Minister of National Defence on January 21.
The question I asked related to the excessive cost of government moves. The cost of these moves is in excess of $100 million. Government moves are handled through four van lines, three of which are 100 per cent American owned and one that is 30 per cent American owned.
Ten years ago these four van lines were fined a total of $250,000 after pleading guilty to conspiring to lessen competition. A court order prohibited the companies from exchanging information or becoming involved in any sort of price and service agreements.
These four van lines are still handling government moves and are in collusion to stop competition in government moves outside of the four van lines. Paul Leader, the senior vice-president of operations and director of government liaison, of Atlas Van Lines wrote to me and my colleague in Kitchener on December 15, 1993. Part of the letter states: "I am writing to you on behalf of the four van lines in Canada, Allied, Atlas, North American and United. For the past 25 years this group has been working with the federal government handling all the moving requirements for its employees."
The government is the biggest client of the moving business in Canada accounting for 35 per cent of Canada's moving business, yet pays 10 to 23 per cent more than CBC, Canadian National Railways, Northern Telecom and Canada Post.
A 1992 study by Consulting and Audit Canada conservatively identified $10 million in possible savings, which could be as high as $26 million.
In 1983 the Department of National Defence, as the country's biggest mover, received the lowest price on an average move when compared to five other major corporations. In 1993 the federal government paid the highest price on an average move.
When I started asking questions related to government moves I have been continually frustrated by government bureaucracy. I have experienced a classic example of "Yes, Minister", a British sitcom television program.
The interdepartmental committee, chaired by national defence, contracts with the van lines to carry out government moves. I have had people tell me that weights of goods moved on behalf of the government have been inflated, which if correct constitutes fraud, and that gifts have been given to employees of the interdepartmental committee responsible for contracting moves with the van lines.