Debates of Feb. 10th, 1994

Cigarette Smuggling

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have a national program to make sure that the smuggling of cigarettes no longer exists in Canada.

Under this program we have made exactly the same offer to all provincial governments. They will decide if they want to participate, yes or no.

I said in the House that we have to proceed with a reduction in taxation at the request of the head of the RCMP. I took that advice very seriously and I hope that the premiers will look at it very seriously as well.

As everybody knows, cigarettes are smuggled everywhere into Canada, mainly in Quebec and Ontario, certainly more than in the west. There were, for example, some arrests this week in Edmonton and in B.C. and they are spreading. We want to kill the disease. We want the law to be respected by everybody in the land. I hope that the provincial governments will realize that the

goal of the government is to have the law respected and to ensure that all citizens are treated equally.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Prime Minister.

Did the federal government secure, perhaps through the meetings yesterday, the active support of the leaders and people of the Mohawk communities of Akwesasne, Kanesatake and Kahnawake for its action plan on smuggling?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, they met yesterday with the Solicitor General and they had a very good meeting. They are preoccupied, like everyone in the House, with making sure that the law is respected. They want us to work with them in order to make sure that the law will be respected by everyone without causing too much of a problem on the reserves. It is complicated for them because they are there and it is happening in front of their eyes. They just want to make sure that the results are good for us and for them.

I think that the meeting they had yesterday with the minister was very good. This afternoon the minister will meet with Ovide Mercredi. I know that many leaders have been in touch with the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. We are consulting with them. We have to make sure that smuggling is eliminated in every part of Canada. They know and understand that.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a further supplementary question for the Prime Minister. I thank him for the straightforward answers.

The third question is on the health dimension. Does the government acknowledge that the credibility of the minister and the ministry of health has been damaged by the acquiescence to the reduction of taxes on cigarettes and how does the government propose to restore the credibility of that department, particularly with the provincial governments?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is no need to restore the credibility of a minister who is not afraid to tell the truth to other ministers and to the people of Canada.

Taxation

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government is presently contemplating, as the previous government did, no longer allowing as a federal tax deduction taxes paid on total payroll. The Conseil du patronat du Québec says that this would unduly penalize small and medium-sized businesses, especially in Quebec where they are more labour intensive than their Canadian counterparts.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Is the minister prepared to remove this threat that has been hanging over businesses, especially the Quebec small business sector, for over two years?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, when I was opposition critic-I think I had the seat over there, as Mr. Tremblay recalls-I made exactly the same speech, except a little better perhaps!

As you know, we are a full year away from January 1995 and already, we are consulting with the Government of Quebec and other provincial governments. Our discussions will certainly yield results before long.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I can also remember Mr. Wilson speaking just like the hon. minister.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

He sat over there.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

He sat over there.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Exactly. Mr. Speaker, if the minister and all the members of his government are serious about job creation and economic growth, if the members opposite are serious about the red book they keep brandishing, in other words if they are not putting on an act, can the minister assure all small and medium-sized businesses once and for all, especially the Quebec small business sector, that he will allow them to claim the payroll tax when calculating their income tax?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, that is not the problem. The problem facing small business is really linked to the taxes levied by governments, be they federal or provincial, on total payroll because this kills jobs. That is why we are so intent on having discussions with the Government of Quebec as well as other provincial governments to reduce, if not eliminate, these taxes which are real job killers. That is our answer and I must say that I think it is far better than the one Mr. Wilson gave back then.

Cigarette Smuggling

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister has suggested that one-third of cigarettes in Ontario are contraband. The decision to cut tobacco taxes has only moved cigarette smuggling from the St. Lawrence River to the Ottawa River. Now that the Prime Minister has a plan to stop

the north-south flow, what plan does he have to stop the east-west flow?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that Quebec is still part of Canada.

I know they will remain in Canada for a long time.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

We have reduced the level of taxation according to a plan that is available to all governments in Canada. The plan is a national one to cure a national problem. I did not go into hiding. I said that it was not an easy decision. But smuggling will stop in Canada. If the provinces feel that they do not have a problem, they will have to live with the consequences of their actions. Every government was aware of what we wanted to do. We were all losing billions of dollars as a result of that. Therefore this government decided to act.

If other governments want to avoid the problem, fine, they will have to accept the consequences. They were elected and they have to do their job. It will be up to the people of Ontario to ask the question of the Ontario government, not me.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Prime Minister.

My constituency office in Barrie has received many calls, all in opposition to the plan, not one in support. Surely every member in Ontario has received similar calls. Will the Prime Minister allow the 97 government members from Ontario to publicly express the feelings of their constituents?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am very surprised because in Hamilton, which includes the riding of the Deputy Prime Minister, a poll was taken yesterday by a radio station and it was three to one in favour of this plan.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

The Minister of National Revenue was on a radio show yesterday talking with citizens in the riding of the leader of the Reform Party and there were many in favour of the federal plan.

Bosnia

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, at its meeting yesterday, the NATO Council followed the United States' initiative and issued an ultimatum giving Serbian forces ten days to withdraw their weapons from around Sarajevo.

The Prime Minister told us yesterday that this ultimatum had spurred the belligerents to negotiate a ceasefire with UN military authorities in Sarajevo.

Could the Prime Minister give us an update on the situation in Sarajevo today and tell us if the ceasefire is being observed and if the Serbs have in fact started to withdraw their artillery from around Sarajevo?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to tell the hon. member that, according to the latest information we have, the plan put forward and approved at yesterday's NATO meeting is being honoured by all parties. We have every reason to believe that this initiative will lead to a lasting peace, as everyone hopes.

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, could the Prime Minister tell us whether he has received concrete guarantees of the safety of peacekeepers before supporting the proposal that the Americans made at the NATO council for air strikes?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that troops involved in such a situation are always exposed to danger. No one can promise you absolute safety for everyone in Bosnia at the moment.

As the Minister of Foreign Affairs was saying, our decision had immediate results, in that the plan for a demilitarized zone around Sarajevo appears to be succeeding.

As far as Canadian troops are concerned, the withdrawal process has already started in Srebrenica. A number of Dutch soldiers have already arrived to relieve Canadian soldiers who are scheduled to leave this Bosnian hot spot by the end of the month.

Cigarette Smuggling

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Revenue.

Yesterday I learned that many customs ports with limited hours of operation will now be open 24 hours a day as part of the government's action plan on smuggling. An hour later I learned that this decision was largely reversed.

Could the minister explain to the House why such a massive program was instituted without first informing all MPs and why these ill-conceived plans were just as abruptly cancelled?