Debates of Feb. 18th, 1994

Rural Post Offices

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, February 17 will be remembered as a great day for rural Canada. It is the day that the ill-conceived Tory plan to shut down all rural post offices was finally put to rest.

Rural Canada will be able to breathe again. Rural post offices will be the heart of our small communities as they have been in the past.

The minister responsible for Canada Post and the Prime Minister and indeed all of cabinet deserve our praise. I am sure all rural Canadians are grateful.

Now let us turn to the next postal issue. Let us all join together to convince Canada Post to stop harassing rural mail contractors and to provide rural mail contractors with some kind of dignity, the kind of dignity they had in their employment under previous Liberal governments.

Fisheries

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to welcome the announcement made yesterday in Brussels by the Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Organization that a moratorium on cod fishing in international waters off Newfoundland will take place immediately.

This ban was called for by our party during the last election and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has worked hard for its implementation.

As a member from Atlantic Canada where so many fishermen and the fishery itself are affected by foreign overfishing, this moratorium is welcome news. A small ray of hope now glimmers at the end of the tunnel for the fishery off the east coast.

I appreciate as well that the Canadian proposal to extend until the end of 1994 the pilot on board program that places observers on vessels to ensure the moratorium is maintained has been implemented. The minister should be complimented for his efforts.

However we must continue to be vigilant in everything we do nationally and internationally to ensure that the Atlantic cod fishery survives to be a viable economic industry in the future.

Ministerial Statements

[Vic Althouse, NDP, Mackenzie, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned about yesterday's refusal by the Reform Party House leader to allow a ministerial statement in the House.

Private members fought long and hard against Brian Mulroney's policy of ignoring this Chamber. He broke the longstanding tradition of making government announcements in the Chamber. Instead he and his ministers made statements to the press, often off the Hill, which members would read about afterward.

If this Chamber is ever going to get back its ancient role of being able to control and contain government spending, it must reclaim the right to hear all ministerial announcements that affect spending. Forcing ministers out of the House, as the hon. member for Kindersley-Lloydminster-

[The Speaker]

Order. The Chair would hope that members would refrain from attacking other members personally.

The generally accepted rule of the House has been that we have allowed a certain leeway on attacking party policy. But I would encourage hon. members to refrain from attacking each other personally or from imputing any kind of motive.

If hon. members could consider that as a guideline it would be very much appreciated.

Kanesatake Reserve

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. The Mohawk leader of Kanesatake, Jerry Peltier, said yesterday that he had the government's assurance that there would be no police or military intervention on that territory to end the criminal activities of certain individuals who are terrorizing the population. The situation has become so serious that the chief editorialist of La Presse , Alain Dubuc believes that tough action from the police and, if necessary, from the armed forces has become inevitable.

Is it true that the government has formally assured the chief of the Mohawk communities that there would be no intervention from the police or from the army to end the smuggling once and for all?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, absolutely not.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is always curious to see the reactions following meetings between Mohawk leaders and the government; there are always at least two versions. At least two.

I ask the Deputy Prime Minister whether she considers acceptable what a Mohawk spokesman from Akwesasne said when he threatened armed reprisals for any police intervention to end smuggling activities.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I consider these comments as repugnant as the comments of the Leader of the Opposition yesterday when he compared the situation in Bosnia to the tobacco problem here in Canada.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

That is not what the Leader of the Opposition said, and she knows that perfectly. I know that she is aware of repugnant statements, she is quite familiar with them.

My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Can she confirm the statements of the spokesman for the Mohawk community of Akwesasne, Mr. Russell Roundpoint, who said that many smugglers have AK-47 and AK-15 machine guns which they have admitted using to protect their cargoes of illicit goods in the Akwesasne-Cornwall corridor?

This government wanted names. Russell Roundpoint made those statements. That is one name. What does the Deputy Prime Minister think?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the member wants to quote people and now he says that the quote of the Leader of the Opposition is not true.

I want to emphasize again that the Government of Canada does not agree with statements like this one the Leader of the Opposition: "We are courageous enough to maintain peace in Bosnia, but when we have a problem here, we cannot solve it. Come on, it makes no sense. There is something wrong with that. International opinion will have to realize that we have an obligation to preserve our own societies".

How dare he compare the situation in Bosnia with a situation here, where the sale of contraband cigarettes has dropped dramatically in a week! Why is the Leader of the Opposition not here to applaud us?

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is easy to see that the Deputy Prime Minister does not understand the difference between intervention and situation.

The Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister would have the general public believe that the Bloc Quebecois is trying to tarnish the Mohawks' reputation. Everyone, including every person involved in this, knows and recognizes that illicit smuggling activities on Mohawk reserves can be blamed on a handful of armed individuals who are imposing a reign of terror.

My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Does she recognize that smuggling on reserves is done by a small number of individuals whose activities threaten the safety of the Mohawk people and the surrounding communities?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, members of the opposition continue to claim they have no hidden agenda here, yet since Monday, according to La Presse , 22 questions to the government have been on this topic.

The problem of cocaine did not begin this week. The problem of cocaine is not exclusive to Indian reserves across the country. The problem of illegal drug abuse has existed for many years, including the years that the Leader of the Opposition was sitting in Brian Mulroney's cabinet.

If the member would like to point the finger at Indian reserves and suggest there is a cocaine problem exclusive to them, let him go outside and say that. The reality is that the contraband cigarettes, the drugs, the other issues, are problems of organized crime which are as prevalent in the cities of Hamilton, Toronto and Montreal as they are in Kanesatake and Akwesasne.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are well aware that the RCMP itself has declared that the territory is a hub. The supplementary question I want to ask the Deputy Prime Minister is this: The Mohawk leaders' alarmist declarations have raised the already high level of tension on the reserves. Is it not the Prime Minister's duty to meet with the Mohawk leaders to demand that they promise to co-operate with the government to end smuggling and to ensure respect for the law on their territory like everywhere else in Canada, as the government claims?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, if there is one group responsible for feeding the crisis, it is the opposition.

Just last week, a member of the Bloc visited the reserves, supposedly for a door-to-door survey. "Do you own weapons? Do you buy contraband goods?" Just imagine, Mr. Speaker, what would the reaction of Quebecers and Canadians be if members of Parliament went knocking on their constituents' doors to ask them about their illegal activities at home. Is that what Bloc members mean by democracy? I do not think so.

The Budget

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister and deals with the fiscal reality facing the House.

Yesterday the Government of Saskatchewan brought down a provincial budget with no tax increases and a 33 per cent reduction in its deficit figure. Yesterday the Quebec premier said that his next budget will feature deficit reduction and a possible tax cut.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister tell the House the extent to which federal deficit fighting measures are being co-ordinated with those of the provinces and whether the federal government is leading or following?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the Reform Party will have his answer in four days and I know he will be very happy with it.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, what I am asking is something that is relatively straightforward. I asked whether the federal government was co-ordinating its activities with the provinces, the answer to which is not dependent at all on the budget being brought down.

My supplementary question is this. All three levels of government raise their revenues from the same taxpayer, yet no government budget in the country to date explicitly acknowledges the total tax load carried by Canadians.

Does the federal government believe that total tax load must be taken into account in making any changes to federal taxes? Will it ensure that background information on total tax load is included with its budget presentation next week?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, many provinces have more than three levels of government. There are four levels of government and obviously this government is very cognizant that there is only one taxpayer.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we can see why the Deputy Prime Minister is not Minister of Finance.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

My third question is this. As the Deputy Prime Minister knows, Canadian business, capital and jobs have been leaving the country in recent years, citing high tax loads as one of the principal reasons for leaving.

Does the federal government believe that Canada has room to further increase the total tax load carried by Canadians without driving more businesses, more capital and more jobs out of the country?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister and the government believe that any government policy on finance has to be two track. It has to relate to taxes and jobs.

We did not make the kinds of promises that were made by the leader of the third party in the last election and that may be why he is the leader of the third party.

Liquor Smuggling

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about another contraband product.

It appears that losses related to smuggling of liquor might be more important than first thought. According to the Association of Canadian Distillers, this illegal activity results in a loss of $1.2 billion in uncollected taxes. In Quebec, liquor smuggling has increased 35 per cent and now affects 1.7 million cases of liquor, and 2.2 million cases are smuggled into Ontario each year.

Will the Minister of National Revenue order an internal inquiry, following allegations to the effect that some senior customs officials are involved in liquor smuggling?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the claim that there are customs officers accepting bribes is one we take extremely seriously.

The Solicitor General and myself announced yesterday that the RCMP would carry out an investigation of these allegations. That is all they are: allegations.

I would point out to the hon. member that the document in the program which indicated this was taking place was dated prior to the last election. It may be that this program is dealing with very dated news. I cannot tell. The information is not there for us to know at what time this program was made and who was speaking.

I would again point out that the allegation was not in fact made by the CBC but was made by another individual who claims to be a smuggler and a thief. To rely upon this person's statement with respect to customs officers is perhaps the wrong thing to do until an inquiry has been held.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, considering the scope of the problem, will the minister consider a concerted effort with the provinces to curb the spread of this illegal activity?