Debates of March 16th, 1994

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-Jean

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a constructive proposal to the Prime Minister by guaranteeing the Bloc's full support for a decision to keep a French-language college in Saint-Jean and an English-language college in Kingston by reducing in an equitable fashion the number of officer cadets in both colleges, so as to maintain the opportunity for francophones to prepare for a military career in their community and in their language.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as we said, only 16 per cent of French-speaking officers in the Canadian Forces graduated from the college in Saint-Jean. They are giving the impression that officers who attended Laval University, the University of Sherbrooke, the University of Montreal, the University of Quebec in Chicoutimi or the University of Quebec in Trois-Rivières instead of the college in Saint-Jean are not as good because they did not go to a military college.

With our smaller armed forces, the military college is no longer necessary. The Leader of the Opposition told us we should cut defence spending by 25 per cent. If we had followed his advice in Quebec, we would have closed not only the military college in Saint-Jean but also the military base in Bagotville and probably other bases in Quebec. But we found the Opposition Leader's proposals unacceptable under the current circumstances. We must maintain a certain level of employment and a higher level of military forces than he recommended.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is rather strange to learn that French speaking officer cadets can obtain their training in civilian universities, whereas it is not the case for English speaking cadets. According to the Prime Minister's reasoning, Kingston should also be closed.

[An hon. member]

Absolutely.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

This is a double standard.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on several occasions last week, we demanded that the government provide specific figures concerning the closure of the Collège militaire de Saint-Jean. We did not get a satisfactory answer from the minister who, yesterday in committee, only gave incomplete figures, with no breakdown whatsoever, which do not reflect.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Keep going.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Before making the regrettable decision-

I realize that it hurts to hear the truth-

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

They cannot take it. They find it so hard.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

It does not hurt.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, before making the regrettable decision to close the only French speaking military college, did the Minister of National Defence ask for a complete review of the financial impact of maintaining two colleges with a reduced number of cadets, based on established objectives? Did the minister have a complete and accurate review done?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, first, the Collège de Saint-Jean and the Royal Military College in Kingston are both bilingual institutions. Yes they are.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Yes they are. As I said in this House, there are graduates from Kingston who took all their courses in French and also wrote their exams in French. The hon. member once again showed his ignorance earlier when he said that English-speaking cadets will have to go to Kingston to become officers. This is not the case.

They will do just as well in Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto or Halifax. They will attend local universities and obtain the required officers' training. In fact, only a small proportion, approximately 15 per cent, of English-speaking cadets currently receive their degree from Kingston, Saint-Jean or Royal Roads. In other words, the college only serves to train a very small fraction of officers.

Those are the facts. But we did not listen to the opposition. I do not think the hon. member is very committed to defending Saint-Jean. Yesterday, he made a big fuss at a press conference which lasted five minutes, and when the media people were finished taking pictures, he left.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what the Prime Minister does not realize is that it did not take longer than five minutes to see through the government and its charade.

Since, by his own admission, the Prime Minister cannot provide us with a satisfactory answer-and neither can his Minister of Defence who has been "shut out" of this matter-since he admits not having commissioned a study on the costs of maintaining both colleges with a smaller student population, how can he seriously talk about saving $23 million? On what basis can he make that statement?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have told this House several times-never mind how loudly the hon. member puts his question-that it does not take endless studies to see that in the United States, they have three military colleges for two million servicemen and women. We have reduced our military spending as suggested by the opposition and the Canadian Armed Forces now have a strength of only 65,000.

I do not need to spend more money to see or to have experts tell me that we do not need three military colleges for 65,000 members. We will have one good bilingual college in Kingston instead of two, one in Kingston and the other in Saint-Jean, as we had before.

The Economy

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

I would like to move beyond this family feud between Quebec Liberals and Bloc members over the College Saint-Jean to something of national importance.

Yesterday the money markets drove the Canadian dollar to a seven year low and forced interest rates up. This is something that hurts us all. Analysts say the markets were reacting to two factors: first, foreign borrowers' concerns about the bombing of the Quebec hydro tower; and second, the failure of the federal budget to reverse the choking trend of public debts and deficits.

What is the Prime Minister prepared to say to investors and lenders to alleviate their fears concerning these two factors?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian economy continues to be very strong. Of course I am not going to make

any comment on the value of the Canadian dollar, which fluctuates.

The hon. member is a little late. I spent 27 years of my life commenting on the prospective value of the Canadian dollar. He missed it by four months. I am sorry but he is four months too late.

I have been told by the Prime Minister not to comment on the value of the Canadian dollar. However I will comment on the Canadian economy. It is strong. We have had manufacturers' shipments up 7 per cent year over year. We have had business confidence improving over the last little while and consumer confidence has been improving somewhat as well.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there is nothing new and nothing substantive in what has been said. All of this was said before and yet investors and lenders are not reassured.

Will the Prime Minister say something more substantive? Does he or does he not have a contingency plan to deal with foreign perceptions of political and financial instability in Canada?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Canada is a very good and very stable country. We have had a good budget presented and we have a plan that is very clear.

The market can speculate all it wants. However we are not changing the policies of the government on speculation in the market from one day to the other because investors from abroad know very well that there is not a better place in the world to invest than Canada.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister mentions the budget but the budget is part of the problem. The fall of the dollar and the rise in interest rates for whatever reasons call into question the most basic assumptions in the budget.

Will the Prime Minister as a bare minimum direct the finance minister to prepare a fiscal contingency plan including a moratorium on all new spending programs to increase international confidence in the Canadian dollar?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker the Minister of Finance presented a budget in this House. It will be voted on in a few days. We are not going to have a budget every time the leader of the Reform Party wants one.

We need political stability. We need a good plan. We said to the market that we will be reducing expenditures and we are doing that. Today some people are complaining because we are reducing expenditures, but we are keeping to our plan. We have a good plan and we will achieve our goal of 3 per cent of GDP for the deficit within three years.

Health Care

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government is desperately trying to broaden the tax base and regularly puts out feelers on how this could be done. Its latest effort came yesterday when some Liberal members supported applying the GST to health care and medication, which I think is pretty outrageous.

Does the Prime Minister share the position taken by his members who, in the course of their work on the GST review, came out openly in favour of taxing health care and medication?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we appointed a committee to review the GST, as we said we would, and its members received submissions. All parties are represented on the committee. In the end we will have a report, and we will examine that report and then decide whether it will become government policy.

We do not want to act without consulting the members of this House. The hon. member complains that Liberal members are not afraid of having ideas; I am very proud of members who go to committees and are not afraid of exploring new avenues. I need their help, but in the end, the government makes the decision.