Madam Speaker, the hon. member has quite a spirit of debate, undoubtedly obtained through her years in the courtroom. I should point out that to debate an issue such as this, there has to be some basis of fact.
The example of the Marshall affair in Nova Scotia was one where Mr. Marshall had actually contributed to his own demise in the sense that he lied to the police as was evident at the trial.
I would also like to point out the member brings to mind certain things that happen in society that may be contrary to the norm, where mistakes in judgment could be made in court. We do not live in a perfect society. This is one of the reasons we have laws. We also have high expectations for members of Parliament, yet often they have gone awry. MPs should be held accountable and are not above the law, yet it has happened that they seem to have been above the law on occasion.
Justice must not only be done but it must be perceived to be done. I believe the hon. member should get out of the committees she is on and into the society which she talks about. We cannot have deterrence if we do not have punishment. Would the hon. member address that point. How can we have deterrence if we do not have punishment?