And can be improved. It is in that spirit I make my comments today and I know my hon. colleagues do as well.
We are all aware that Bill C-16 will pass eventually. It will pass intact or with moderate or very little change. The question then is this: Why am I and my colleagues so impassioned about this debate? That is the question. Why would we even bother?
The other question is: This is a debate of incredible importance, at least in our view, to the nation, and yet how much ink does it get? Where are the priorities in the nation? We are talking about the First Nations, the first people in our country. They have traditionally, we know and acknowledge, been the recipi-
ents of something less than the kind of treatment of which we should be proud. Yet for the very first time it is being debated. Unfortunately it will probably get very little interest outside the House.
Why then do I think this is the most important speech I have given in the House thus far, and why do I care so deeply that what we do is right? It is because the relationship between the first people and the immigrants, that is all of us that they welcomed to this continent, has largely been one of paternalism, of manipulation, of neglect and of isolation.
We acknowledge that there are two sides to every story. While we-I am speaking essentially as a white person in this country-have not much to be proud about, neither do our native brothers have very much to be proud about either. We have to recognize that there are two sides to this story and responsibilities on both sides. We must accept responsibility, but so must the aboriginal people accept responsibility for their lot in life.
That is not to say there have not been examples of inspiration and achievement. But in general, especially on the prairies where I am from, we have nothing to be proud of. By using that as a starting point and as a base, what can we do, where do we go from here?
As in everything we have to recognize the situation as it is, not as we would wish it to be. We have to recognize both sides of the issue; those who will receive the benefits of this agreement, and also those who are going to be paying the bills. Because we are all, as it was mentioned earlier by an hon. colleague, and we have to make it work. If it is not good for both sides it will not be good for either.
Aboriginal Canadians comprise about 5 per cent of the population, and yet aboriginal Canadians are over-represented in every statistic that speaks to failure in our society and they are under represented in most statistics that represent success. This was so eloquently put across to all of us by the hon. member for Churchill when he talked about his experiences. We know this, it is not something we are debating at all.
How did this unholy circumstance happen? Did it happen by accident? I submit it did not. It happened because our forefathers chose not to accept the aboriginals as brother human beings, equal in every respect, in human rights and in dignity. Instead, aboriginal Canadians were treated as innocents, they were in need of the benevolent protection of the state. Aboriginal Canadians were herded on to reserves, isolated from the world, out of sight and out of mind. That has largely been the situation for many years, one of benevolent ignorance, "let's not pay attention to it and it won't be a problem".
It does not matter whether the intention was good or evil. The result today is the circumstance that aboriginal people largely endure, a circumstance in many respects no better than South Africa's discredited system of apartheid, so deservedly denounced in all the civilized world. Aas we debate today, free elections are under way in South Africa. Another nail is being driven into the coffin of the marginalization of indigenous peoples around the world. South Africans should and must be congratulated for this giant leap forward and that indeed is a giant leap forward for mankind.
However, I must get back to Bill C-16, the comprehensive land claims settlement of the Sahtu Dene and Metis. How would the bill lead to a better way of life for those involved and will this settlement lead to self-sufficiency, pride, self-respect and self-confidence of the Sahtu Dene as a people? That is the question. If what we are talking about would lead to self-respect, pride, self-confidence and self-sufficiency, then it would be a very small price to pay. It is what we all want to achieve. It is where we want to be at the end of the day.
Unfortunately I think the answer is a qualified no. I do not know if it is going to achieve the noble objectives which are envisioned for it. While there are aspects of the bill my colleagues have already questioned, I need to point out that 16,000 square miles is an awful lot of land for just 2,200 people, not to mention $130 million over 15 years.
Why do the Sahtu Dene need so much land and why does the government pay them so much money, while at the same time they are still entitled to all the benefits all other status Indians have today or may receive in the future?
Sixteen thousand square miles is a lot of land. However keep in mind that over much of the year it is covered with ice and snow. Also keep in mind there really are not a whole lot of people up there and the traditional way of life for the Sahtu Dene is trapping, hunting and fishing. Not a whole lot of people are trying to get into that land either, except to explore and get at the resources and we still have that opportunity.
As I understand it the Sahtu Dene will be the custodians of the land. We should not make any mistake. The land will be theirs in fee simple. However, except for about 700 square miles all Canadians will have access, with permission where possible, provided they do not harm the land or destroy the environment.
We can look at the immense amount of land and look at the Sahtu Dene and Metis because there will not be any reserves. This is all settlement land. We can look at it as a big national park but the park rangers are the traditional inhabitants, the Sahtu Dene and Metis. While they will be getting the land in fee simple, they do not own the resources of the vast majority of the land. They own the resources of about 700 square miles. That is an important consideration.
However, if resources are found in any of that land, they will via royalties be able to participate in the profit. The money, $75 million to be paid out over 15 years, is intended to help develop a commercial infrastructure and is paid to the band council. With the money they can set up hunting lodges-if handguns or rifles are not banned-and with fishing and guiding try to get some tourist trade going.
The idea of the Sahtu Dene is to participate, to be doing something, rather than sitting back and for this they are to be recognized and congratulated.
The reality is that we, the Government of Canada, are going to pay out $75 million over 15 years. The money is not going to disappear. It will be recycled through the band to the community. I think that financial commitment may turn out to be a mistake and this is the primary reason why I have a problem with the bill. Remember it is in addition to any existing entitlements.
In my opinion the Sahtu Dene would be well served if their commercial activities had to undergo the same checks and balances as any other commercial venture anywhere else in Canada. The band council could consider a system of guarantees but the focus should be to develop entrepreneurs who would repay their stake and be accountable for use of the money. However the most important consideration is: Will the agreement lead to self-sufficiency? Will this get people off social assistance and into the mainstream of Canadian life?
Unless the entrepreneurs in the Sahtu Dene nation have obligations, they are not going to be able to develop skills as entrepreneurs that will allow them to become part of mainstream life. All of us exist in a competitive society and we cannot take ourselves out of it. If we are going to get into business, we are into business. We cannot be half in and half out. Otherwise it will be a black hole in which we will be throwing more and more money.
I think, though, it could be but only if the land settlement and cash payment are one-time deals. That is why the agreement is so very important. In my opinion the agreement will set the stage for future agreements to be negotiated across the country in the months and years ahead.
Most Canadians want to do the right thing by our aboriginal brothers. Most Canadians feel a collective sense of embarrassment over the condition and situation of many aboriginal Canadians. We will not improve their situation by creating still more dependence and throwing still more money at the problem. Therefore this would be a much better agreement if the Sahtu Dene and Metis were to receive the benefit of the agreement or their traditional entitlements as agreed, but not both.
That is a fairly major change. They would receive the benefits of the agreement or their traditional entitlements, but not both. The way it is set up today, they would receive all their traditional benefits plus all the benefits that accrue to them under the agreement.
There are only 982 people to participate in this. How will that do anything to promote self-sufficiency? We must remember that when the settlement is done the Sahtu Dene will get the benefit of the royalties of resources on the land. Those royalties would today give them $200,000. How does anyone know what might be found there in the future?
By accepting this land settlement and the royalties that come with it as well as the cash settlements, the Sahtu Dene should also accept the same rights, freedoms and obligations of any other Canadian in any other part of the country. That is the only road that leads to self-sufficiency, self-respect and dignity.
Continued dependence generation after generation leads to exactly what we do not want whether the recipients are aboriginal or not. This settlement offers at the very minimum hope of a better future for the Sahtu Dene and Metis. I am concerned that the agreement sets a bad precedence because it does not regulate the use of the cash payment. The land settlement is absolutely enormous. It is not clear if there is a provision to make changes in the agreement if it is subsequently seen to be in need of correction. The agreement is entrenched in the Constitution under section 35 because the Sahtu Dene are already covered under treaty 11.
Another consideration has to be the implementation of aboriginal self-government. It is my opinion the Sahtu Dene will be responsible in implementing a combination of band council and municipal government. We have to face it that in this circumstance there are only about 2,800 people in the entire 16,000 square kilometres and they are mostly concentrated in a few communities.
Finally the agreement will be entrenched in the Constitution. Therefore I am of the opinion that the charter rights would prevail as the law of the land despite any future self-government negotiations.