Debates of April 28th, 1994

Patent Drugs

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I must point out that it is impossible for the Minister of Foreign Affairs to answer questions on matters that do not fall under his administrative responsibility. He could easily provide an appropriate answer, but the Standing Orders of this House do not allow him to respond.

I could add that the three ministers referred to by the opposition leader have demonstrated that they have obviously been working and will continue to work in the best interests of Quebecers and Canadians in general. And this work will continue to be positive and to promote the interests of Quebecers and Canadians. That has been clearly demonstrated, and the opposition's questions are not disproving anything.

Health Care

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, since you permitted a quotation from Shakespeare I am sure you would permit one from Edmund Burke that says: "Just because a few grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chirping, whilst thousands of great cattle repose beneath the trees chew their cud and are silent, please do not believe that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field".

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge, AB]

If I may quote one of the great Speakers of the House of Commons, would the hon. member please put his question?

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of Health. Yesterday the Prime Minister acknowledged that there are serious problems in Canada's health care system, but in the same breath he refused to consider the most obvious measures to help our health care system to survive.

My question for the health minister is this. If the federal government cannot maintain its financial support of health care, and if it will not amend the Canada Health Act to allow the provinces more flexibility in paying for health care, how then does the minister propose to solve the problem of financing health care in Canada?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. It gives me the opportunity to set the record straight.

Actually the best news of the past budget was the fact that transfer payments in health care were not cut. It was the one area that was not. We guaranteed stability over the next few years. As matter of fact transfer payments will be allowed to grow somewhat over the next few years.

In light of the fiscal problems we are facing, that should send a very positive message to all Canadians, that our health care system is one we value above all else.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question.

I thank the minister for her reply. However it does not take a brain surgeon to figure out what is at the root of the financing problems of health care. The total health care bill in Canada is now over $70 billion with the provinces paying 46 per cent of that bill, individuals and private insurance companies paying about 28 per cent and the federal government now paying about 23 per cent. The federal government is no longer the senior partner in health care financing. It has become a junior partner.

Will the minister today admit that health care transfers are now insufficient to permit the provinces to meet the demands of the Canada Health Act? Will she commit to amend the act to give the provinces the flexibility they need to finance the major portion of the bill?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, hard working Canadians who live by the rules, who pay their taxes, gave us a very strong message during the last election. They believe in the health care system as it is governed by the Canada Health Act. That is our mandate and we will maintain it. There is a role for the national government.

I would like to take this opportunity to tell all Canadians that there is someone here, there is a government, that will make sure they get health care not based on the size of their pocketbooks but based on the fact that they are sick.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have one further supplementary question.

The minister's answer leaves Canadians wondering what it would take to convince the government that health care financing and the Canada Health Act need to be reformed. How many more hospitals have to be closed down? How much longer do the waiting lines have to become? How many more Canadians have to go to the United States for health care?

How much further does the health care system have to deteriorate before the government will agree to reform the Canada Health Act and the financing of health care in Canada?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt in my mind and in the minds of most Canadians that the health care system is one of the best. It is far better than what you find south of the border.

Not only is it one of the best but it has given us a great economic advantage. We will not reopen the Canada Health Act in the short term. We are here to make sure that what we value as a party, as a country, is maintained.

There will have to be some changes, and change is always difficult. But it does not mean we have to let go of the principles we really believe in.

Regional Development

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Finance who is also responsible for regional development in Quebec.

The red book emphasizes the importance of developing companies in high-tech sectors. The Liberal Party has promised to increase incentives for leading-edge industries. We were therefore amazed to hear that the government plans to revise and, in effect, weaken Bill C-91, the drug patent bill.

My question is this: How can the minister co-operate with the Minister of Industry on a strategy that will have a disastrous and devastating impact on brand-name manufacturers in the pharmaceutical industry who invest massively in research and development and are mainly located in the Montreal area, where the Minister of Finance has his riding?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, Bloc members are having a hard time understanding the answers to the questions. As I just said, first of all, we are very much aware of our commitments under GATT and NAFTA. Second, it is very important for us to review the performance of companies on the basis of their commitment to invest in research and development, and we also have to-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[John Manley, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, they are not interested, and they are not even listening to the answers. Maybe that is why they do not understand.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a supplementary for the Minister of Finance and minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec, and I hope he will give me an answer. I would like to point out that the minister, unlike his Liberal colleagues at the time, did not vote against Bill C-91 because he knows how important it is for Montreal, and I commend him for that.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the minister whether he will finally speak for Quebec in Cabinet and defend this important industry in the Montreal area by rejecting out of hand any changes that would weaken the patent legislation. Will the minister take a stand to defend the interests of Quebec and Montreal against his colleagues or will he remain silent and let the ministers from Ontario go ahead and undermine Quebec's interests?

[The Speaker]

The question should be addressed to the minister having the administrative responsibility for a particular dossier and I go to the Minister of Industry.

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, this is a continuing campaign of confusion and obfuscation by the Official Opposition. The member's question implies that this issue simply divides along the Ottawa River. This is simply not correct.

The brand name pharmaceutical industry is as important in the province of Ontario as it is in the province of Quebec. In addition the generic industry exists in the province of Quebec as it does in the province of Ontario.

Furthermore, Canadians in all parts of the country are profoundly concerned that governments look to the companies involved in this industry, first of all to live up to the obligations that they entered into. Second, Canadians in all parts of the country are concerned about the impact of drug prices on our health care system.

If members of the Bloc Quebecois are not interested in these things, that is for them to say. However, as to the commitment of the government to an innovative economy, that is clear and will be pursued by this government with vigour and determination across Canada.

Health Care

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that our health care system is sick and the way to find out is to go to a hospital.

Recently in my province of British Columbia the Prince George Regional Hospital had to close one-third of its beds. Vancouver General Hospital has closed 108 beds. Calgary General Hospital is being closed down and the lights are being turned out on Calgary's children's hospital, all because of a lack of funds.

Because of the Canada Health Act rules and regulations, the only solution to the health care problem the minister has offered to the provinces is to withhold health care funding to rationing and bed closures.

Does the minister offer any other alternatives to health care funding in this country?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, no doubt there have been problems in transfer payments. We have had a different government. Now we are back to protect the people of Canada.

There are many new techniques nowadays which often mean we do not need to use all the hospital beds. To go out and spread fear among the population is wrong. We still have a very good system. We are going to work together to make it better and to renew it. That is why we are going to have a national forum on health.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as a physician and surgeon who works in hospitals, if you are sick and need a hospital bed and cannot get it, that is a tragedy that does not belong in this great country.

Yesterday the minister told the provinces she is going to withhold $750,000 per month in transfer payments for health care. That is $750,000 less to treat the people of British Columbia which means longer bed closures, less care for the sick and the elderly and people are going to die.

We must get our heads out of the sand. What is the minister going to do and what alternative does she have to get health care and Canada on firm financial ground? It needs immediate care now. What is she going to do about it?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have the law of the land which is very specific. If a previous government chose not to follow the law, then that was wrong.

This Minister of Health and this government take our responsibilities very seriously. We will follow the letter of the law. We will also send a message out that extra billing is wrong. It is wrong because it hurts those who need help. Believe me, I will fight to make sure that people who are sick get treatment based on their illnesses, not based on the size of their wallets. Any extra billing is a tax on illness and that is wrong.

Mil Davie Shipyards

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Ottawa has yet to announce its decision

regarding the construction of a new ferry to service the Magdalen Islands. This project would certainly put MIL Davie shipyards in Lauzon back on track.

Yesterday the Quebec minister of industry criticized the federal government's attitude and stated the following: "We are entitled to have our ferry and to have it built here in Quebec. All of a sudden, the federal government has taken an interest in this ferry and wants to award the contract to a shipyard outside the province".

My question is directed to the Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec. Can the minister give us his assurance that he will do whatever it takes in order to get the Prime Minister to rein in his Minister of Transport so that he does not play politics at Quebec's expense and divert the contract to build the ferry from MIL Davie in Lauzon to Saint John Shipbuilding Ltd., which happens to be located in the Minister of Transport's own province?

[Joe Fontana, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, this question has been asked many times in the House of the Minister of Transport and of the Minister of Industry. The Minister of Transport is looking at all options available for the replacement of this ferry.

No decisions have been made. We will take all considerations into account and when a decision has been made we will advise the House.