Mr. Speaker, I commend the hon. member for Nepean for bringing forth this motion. This motion will help us participate in a much needed debate on a very important topic.
Clearly the current system around the issue of child support payments is unfair. It is outdated and simply is not working. The hon. member has helped us to recognize this vital concern that the system must be reformed and that we must find a system which is fair to women, men and most especially to the children who unfortunately experience the breakdown of the family.
Understandably, this has been a topic of interest in my own riding of London-Middlesex and indeed obviously right across this country. This is a vital concern which interests all Canadians.
Both this motion and the Thibaudeau case show that the current system is not working. It is outdated and in bad need of repair. However, simply eliminating taxation of support payments will not necessarily improve the situation.
Without discrimination against women I support the appeal of the decision and the task force to consult further into taxation measures and enforcement of child support payments. We need a more balanced system which is fair to all involved. However, I say again most especially we need a system that keeps as its first priority an adequate level of support paid regularly and on time to the children who have experienced the breakdown of their family.
On a personal note, as an educator for some 21 years in Ontario I can attest to the learning and social difficulties experienced by many children who come from broken and poorer families. All too often these children are unhappy in school and they underachieve as a consequence. Let me hasten to add there are many obvious exceptions to that. There are young people who are so well balanced and mature they manage to live through the breakdown of the family and carry on fairly nicely to successfully complete their education.
I say again, and any teacher anywhere in this land can tell you, all too often that is not the case. All too often these students have a number of problems which must be overcome if they are to successfully complete their education. Many times, unfortu-
nately, that education is interrupted or prematurely ended because of the problems that I have mentioned.
I commend the hon. member for this motion. We have heard many people speak out on the issue in our ridings, in the media, in this Chamber and obviously in the courts. Times have changed and the legislation to deal with this important problem must keep pace with the times.
As it now stands, the government is short $330 million in tax payments and $660 million in deductions. The issues that this case and this motion raise go far beyond narrow questions of taxation or legal interpretation. Most important and as part of his comprehensive review of social programs, the Minister of Human Resources Development in co-operation with the provinces will have to come to grips with the fact that the vast majority of single mothers in Canada receive no support payments at all for their children and that the vast majority of support orders are not obeyed. That is a pathetic fact that I think we all acknowledge. Indeed, one of my colleagues across the way spoke to this on a more personal basis earlier.
We simply cannot have the courts and the laws of this country flouted in such an important area as the support of one's offspring.
The system dates back to 1942. That date alone calls to mind that the system is outdated. The problem was that lawyers and judges frequently failed to increase payments to offset taxes. High income fathers got off without paying tax on part of their income while children suffered to make up the shortfall. Even with the tax benefit a majority of support agreements are in default in Ontario and some two-thirds of children from separated families live in poverty. That point has been made before in this House and today again, but it is a point that is so dramatic that it cannot be made too often. Some two-thirds of children from separated families live in poverty and the fallout of that, both in the school systems and in society at large, is incalculable. It is really a major problem that our society must come to grips with.
A modern and comprehensive approach would boost enforcement and set minimum support guidelines to ensure that children are properly served.
I am pleased to see the emphasis on fairness to Canadian women and I am sure the first people to support this would be those very women. The priority must at all times be the children involved. Whatever is going to be most effective to make sure that they are adequately cared for is the system that I and Canadians want to support.
To sum up, an appeal of the Thibaudeau decision may not seem necessary since Ottawa and the provinces are already studying ways to improve child support guidelines. I think the appeal is a good step as it will help us come to grips with the system in a more comprehensive way and to find that balanced system which we are sorely lacking right now.
Because the court only examined one side of the formula, the tax but not the deduction, there is this imbalance of which I speak. The father can claim the deduction but the mother no longer pays tax, a far richer subsidy than anyone intended. I do not think there can be anyone in this House and I have heard from very few Canadians who would object to the statement of the hon. Minister of Finance. He put it very succinctly and he put it very well and with common sense: Someone has to pay the tax.
The fact of the matter is that someone must pay that tax. It cannot simply be forgone.
In closing, I support the task force chaired by the Secretary of State for the Status of Women because I fully recognize with the government the need for change. Again I commend my hon. colleague from Nepean for her motion. I hope the end result of this process will be a much fairer system recognizing the needs of the children.